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Hezbollah pager explosions kill several people in Lebanon

reuters.com

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Re: Hezbollah pager explosions kill several people in Lebanon

#821

Post by charbroiled »

vincentpants wrote: post #817

Weren't these people mostly emergency responders? Like doctors and EMTs? And yes, killed several, but also injured thousands? I'm a little concerned by the vocabulary used in the op title.

Hezbollah started encouraging its operatives to switch to pagers months ago, out of fear that Israel would compromise or had compromised their cell phones.

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/pagers-drones-how-...

It seems likely that a significant number of the thousands injured were Hezbollah militants. How significant? We’ll have to wait for the numbers.

I haven’t seen any indication that the exploding pagers were held by emergency responders in a significant quantity. Do you have a source for that?

Re: Hezbollah pager explosions kill several people in Lebanon

#822

Post by esjeon »

HL33tibCe7 wrote: post #687
tmnvix wrote: post #668

Aside from the death and injury, what concerns me about this is why now? There is little doubt in my mind that the Prime Minister of Israel is highly motivated to engage in a wider war and drag the US along. This mass bombing could well be in preparation for imminent further action - such as an invasion of Lebanon. Regardless, the escalation this represents is extremely concerning.

On the other hand, one could view this a show of force to try and scare Hezbollah away from further escalation

UN Security Council Resolution 1566 outlines what is considered as terrorism:

"criminal acts, including against civilians, committed with the intent to cause death or serious bodily injury, or taking of hostages, with the purpose to provoke a state of terror in the general public or in a group of persons or particular persons, intimidate a population or compel a government or an international organization to do or to abstain from doing any act."

If their purpose was really about scaring Hezbollah away, this attack can be labelled as terrorism. I'm pretty sure politicians have different ideas there.

Re: Hezbollah pager explosions kill several people in Lebanon

#823

Post by js4ever »

vincentpants wrote: post #817

Weren't these people mostly emergency responders? Like doctors and EMTs? And yes, killed several, but also injured thousands? I'm a little concerned by the vocabulary used in the op title.

Yeah if course it was all journalists kids pregnant doctors. Not Hezbollah members carrying Hezbollah pagers /s

Re: Hezbollah pager explosions kill several people in Lebanon

#825

Post by gmd63 »

mufasachan wrote: post #806
gmd63 wrote: post #353

Another example of why outsourcing manufacturing is a national security concern, and how the absolute free market can lead "winners" to harm themselves by chasing "success" at all costs.

Arguably, it's off-topic, though I agree with the point. Lebanon has been struck by poverty, and as a result, they might have far fewer choices when it comes to providers in general. Manufacturing within Lebanon or trading with neighboring countries might not be affordable for them. It’s important to take a step back before generalizing an economic or political statement that may not be applicable in other contexts.…

Just because something is not affordable doesn't mean its affordable alternative is a viable option, especially when information asymmetries caused by foreign manufacture obscure plastic explosives in the devices or whatever triggered these.

It is the same attitude. "Outsourcing is the only way we can be competitive" / "Buying these cheap pagers is the only way we can afford it"

Re: Hezbollah pager explosions kill several people in Lebanon

#826

Post by rocqua »

barbazoo wrote: post #354
einszwei wrote: post #196

From Israel's perspective, this supply chain attack was undoubtedly a clever move, but I can't help but wonder about its long-term consequences. Although it was aimed at harming Israel's adversaries, third-party countries may now hesitate to involve Israel in their supply chains. There's also the risk that other major producers could replicate this tactic, potentially leading to further escalation in the region or be…

> From Israel's perspective, this supply chain attack was undoubtedly a clever move From The Guardian [1]: > Eight killed and 2,750 wounded Was that a clever move if you're killing "only" 8 potential adversaries? [1] https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2024/sep/17/middle-ea...

Wounded soldiers are often a bigger burden than killed ones. You neee to retrieve them, take care of them, and they may never be fight capable again. They are also a breathing reminder of the costs of war, and at the same time less likely to make others vow revenge.

Re: Hezbollah pager explosions kill several people in Lebanon

#827

Post by esjeon »

phirgate wrote: post #761

This is terrorism. Israel is not an island defending from terrorist, they are the ones spreading terror. What they did to their neighbouring countries could be happen to others. Can we stop praising this as clever and impressive attack and start holding Israel accountable!?

I hope people discuss using more precise terms. UN Security Council Resolution 1566 outlines what is generally considered as terrorism:

"criminal acts, including against civilians, committed with the intent to cause death or serious bodily injury, or taking of hostages, with the purpose to provoke a state of terror in the general public or in a group of persons or particular persons, intimidate a population or compel a government or an international organization to do or to abstain from doing any act."

Physically the attack was likely well targeted. It was shipped very recently, so it's likely only few of those beepers made into the public market.

However, the attack happened right in the middle of general population far away from the theater of war. This obviously intimidates and mentally damages innocent people living their normal lives. So it can be considered as a form of terrorism.

No government, especially those of developed countries, should be allowed to inflict harms on individuals, living in peace, in any form, whether physical or mental.

Re: Hezbollah pager explosions kill several people in Lebanon

#828

Post by torginus »

Honestly just slept on the thing and the story seems even more surreal to me now.

How come they needed to replace their pagers AT ONCE recently? Has there been some great breakthrough in pager technology? I have a 5 year old phone and no desire to replace it for at least a couple years more.

How come everyone had the EXACT same model? Even if the Israelis didn't compromise it, even the most incompetent intelligence agency would notice somebody ordering thousands of an item with an usual order count of zero.

Anyone with a very basic knowledge of supply chain attacks knows you don't buy just one kind of item. If they bought fifty different kinds of pagers, this attack would've been impossible.

I'm sure even in benign cases, placing an order of thousands of items on some niche product causes a lead time of months/weeks. Never mind that the Israelis had to painstakingly modify every single one under the cloak of secrecy. Didn't that raise any flags?

And after they did order thousands of the same item, they didn't bother opening up even a single one?

Honestly I don't think incompetence could explain this, I'm 99% sure Hezbollah is compromised at a high level.

Re: Hezbollah pager explosions kill several people in Lebanon

#829

Post by KeplerBoy »

tomp wrote: post #264
einszwei wrote: post #196

From Israel's perspective, this supply chain attack was undoubtedly a clever move, but I can't help but wonder about its long-term consequences. Although it was aimed at harming Israel's adversaries, third-party countries may now hesitate to involve Israel in their supply chains. There's also the risk that other major producers could replicate this tactic, potentially leading to further escalation in the region or be…

Do you think Hezbollah was buying stuff from Israel, or otherwise using Israeli supply chains? I think it's far more likely that Mossad has infiltrated whatever foreign (non-Israeli) supply chain they were using. So this can happen regardless of whether you're using Israeli supply chains or not.

meh, the most probable explanation is that israel infiltrated hezbollah and whoever was in charge of ordering and distributing those devices knowingly distributed the tampered devices.

That guy got a deal and was evacuated with his family before events unfolded. Seems way easier than alternative plans.

Re: Hezbollah pager explosions kill several people in Lebanon

#830

Post by mupuff1234 »

einszwei wrote: post #196

From Israel's perspective, this supply chain attack was undoubtedly a clever move, but I can't help but wonder about its long-term consequences. Although it was aimed at harming Israel's adversaries, third-party countries may now hesitate to involve Israel in their supply chains. There's also the risk that other major producers could replicate this tactic, potentially leading to further escalation in the region or be…

It could also act as an ad - Israel is capable of James Bond level stuff, their tech must be great.
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