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Julian Assange has reached a plea deal with the U.S., allowing him to go free

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Re: Julian Assange has reached a plea deal with the U.S., allowing him to go free

#821

The whole saga is an interesting lesson in how a noble cause can end up helping anti-democratic forces. Assange gave the public invaluable information that would not have been know otherwise, but he ended up playing right into the hands of the people who wanted to discredit Clinton. Politics is complicated.

I hate to break this to you, but Trump was and is a participant in liberal democracy, not a March on Rome figure.

The events of 1/6/2020, and the proliferation of unfounded 2020 election fraud claims, would suggest otherwise. Not to mention his plans to "be a dictator for a day" and persecute his political opponents if elected this fall.

The man and those in his orbit have a hard-on for Putin/Xi/Kim-style autocracy.

Re: Julian Assange has reached a plea deal with the U.S., allowing him to go free

#822
post #540

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Clinton is not democracy. Anti-Clinton is not anti democracy. Being anti the US government is not anti democratic. And no, letting USA or any other nation for that matter commit war crimes quietly does not support democracy.

This has the same energy as labelling any critique of Israel anti-semitic

Our problem isn't with the critiques of Israel, it's with the fact that the people critiquing Israel are almost universally singling Israel out for critique.

Re: Julian Assange has reached a plea deal with the U.S., allowing him to go free

#823
post #647

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1901 days in prison, after all that time since 2012 holed up in a room in the Ecuadorian embassy first.

He was in isolation in a high security prison without having been convicted of any crimes since 22 September 2019. He was only released after 'admitting' that he was guilty... I think the UK and US should abstain from criticising any countries' courts and justice system after that...

[deleted]

Re: Julian Assange has reached a plea deal with the U.S., allowing him to go free

#824
post #596
post #482

My view of him changed when I saw a recording of him in a documentary saying that murdered Iraqi translators who worked with the US military got what they deserved for working with the enemy.

Yeah Afghans too "Well, they're informants," Assange replied. "So, if they get killed, they've got it coming to them. They deserve it." https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2011/sep/18/julian... I'm ambivalent about his jailing. If you are going to get heroic people killed then you can't cry too much if you get jailed a bit.

There's nothing heroic about supporting a government that institutionalized pedophilia (Bacha Bazi), ran entirely on corruption, and passively accepted the sale of opium out of kickbacks from warlords. Especially not one installed through a foreign invader.

The Taliban are awful, but they're the awful legitimate government of Afghanistan. And they've already ended two of these problems. If you inform against a paramilitary that has no concerns with rule of law, you're already inserting yourself into their war and accepting the risk of being outed.

Re: Julian Assange has reached a plea deal with the U.S., allowing him to go free

#825

He should not have spent all of this time being persecuted by the US government, but he should have been ostracized by the public long ago. I believe that if not for the prior, the latter would have occurred much more readily. > A reporter worried that Assange would risk killing Afghans who had co-operated with American forces if he put US secrets online without taking the basic precaution of removing their names. "W…

The sources are out of context quotes coming from hear say sources; those sources being clearly politically motivated think tanks.

Re: Julian Assange has reached a plea deal with the U.S., allowing him to go free

#826
post #647

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1901 days in prison, after all that time since 2012 holed up in a room in the Ecuadorian embassy first.

He was in isolation in a high security prison without having been convicted of any crimes since 22 September 2019. He was only released after 'admitting' that he was guilty... I think the UK and US should abstain from criticising any countries' courts and justice system after that...

Plea deals and innocent people being pressured into accepting guilt is a huge problem in the US criminal justice system, but I'm not sure Assange in particular fits this. I think he did what is alleged. You could also separately argue that it shouldn't be a crime or that penalties should be less? I think that is a separate discussion.

Re: Julian Assange has reached a plea deal with the U.S., allowing him to go free

#827

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

I'm sorry. did you read the links you shared? the vox article says one contradicting thing after another. "shamir got all the cable leaks... when shamir asked for the cable leaks he was denied" uh? "never leaked russian documents ... assange first contacted him to leak Russian documents in russia" uh? I won't even click the second one.

EDIT: the first article from the parent comment was https://www.vox.com/world/2017/1/6/14179240/wikileaks-russia...

Those aren't quotes from the article and there is no reasonable way to read those contradictions from what's being said.

You seem to be really badly misunderstanding this specific passage:

>"Shamir was also a longtime friend of Julian Assange, who tasked him with helping to disseminate WikiLeaks documents in his native Russia in early 2010.

>“Shamir has a years-long friendship with Assange, and was privy to the contents of tens of thousands of US diplomatic cables months before WikiLeaks made public the full cache,” James Ball, a former WikiLeaks staffer, wrote at the Guardian the next year. “Shamir aroused the suspicion of several WikiLeaks staffers — myself included — when he asked for access to all cable material concerning ‘the Jews,’ a request which was refused.”

>The first thing Shamir did with the documents was hand some off to Russian Reporter magazine, a Kremlin-friendly newsweekly."

I.e. Shamir, a Wikileaks employee, had access to some leaked US diplomatic cables. He was refused additional access. No contradiction.

This is also the only time that Assange's early relationship with Shamir was ever mentioned (read the article for yourself, find where I'm wrong) and note how it mentions leaking US documents in Russia.

There is no mention anywhere in the article of Shamir "leaking Russian documents in Russia", or what Assange "first contacted" Shamir for. There is also NOWHERE in the article that claims that Assange "never leaked Russian documents".

You're free to disagree with the article, but you're absolutely incorrect and completely misleading about its contents.

Re: Julian Assange has reached a plea deal with the U.S., allowing him to go free

#828
post #792

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Revealing war crimes easily qualified for declassification of government documents. It’s a straightforward of course the end justified the means situation

And the other 99.999% of documents that didn't allege any war crimes?

I'm glad the darker side of the US operations came to light, but it would have been better if the leaks went straight to an actual news organization that had enough ethical standards to ensure names of informants and activists at risk were properly redacted.

Snowden's leaks were far better handled.

Re: Julian Assange has reached a plea deal with the U.S., allowing him to go free

#830

He should not have spent all of this time being persecuted by the US government, but he should have been ostracized by the public long ago. I believe that if not for the prior, the latter would have occurred much more readily. > A reporter worried that Assange would risk killing Afghans who had co-operated with American forces if he put US secrets online without taking the basic precaution of removing their names. "W…

What part of the US government or its decision-makers spent 10 years stewing in prison for bribing Afghans to expose themselves to that same risk of death, or straight up killing many more Afghans for no other reason that they happened to be at the wrong place at the wrong time? Does the US government have some special natural right to toy with the lives of Afghans that Assange does not have?

Unless you believe it to be so, it seems quite strange to assign any significant share of the blame to Assange for any hypothetical deaths that may occur as a result of him taking actions to reduce the US government's ability to kill people abroad, akin to blaming police who stop a hostage-taker because this might have prompted the hostage-taker to kill the hostage but holding the hostage-taker himself blameless.

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