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Priced out of home ownership

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Re: Priced out of home ownership

#821
post #817
post #274

People intuitively jump to the conclusion that the problem is caused by a lack of building. While more building would help, a lack of it isn't the main cause of this problem. Ask yourself, do Canada, Australia, New Zealand, the US, Britain, Ireland, etc, all have the same inability to build or is there maybe some other common cause? In my view this is symptomatic of a more fundamental issue - global asset price infla…

>Too many properties are being used as investments and not as a primary residence. Following this logic it would be a net positive to buy an apartment building, move everyone out, and live in it as a single family home.

That makes no sense.

Re: Priced out of home ownership

#822
post #274

People intuitively jump to the conclusion that the problem is caused by a lack of building. While more building would help, a lack of it isn't the main cause of this problem. Ask yourself, do Canada, Australia, New Zealand, the US, Britain, Ireland, etc, all have the same inability to build or is there maybe some other common cause? In my view this is symptomatic of a more fundamental issue - global asset price infla…

People really want there to be "one reason" for skyrocketing housing prices. Real life is not so accommodating.

The problem is multi-faceted.

Is there asset price inflation due to cheap money? Yes.

Have foreign nationals been parking their cash in real estate in certain western countries? Yes.

Has restrictive zoning and NIMBY-ism reduced the incoming supply of new homes? Yes.

Multiple things can be true at the same time, all contributing to the current state of affairs.

Re: Priced out of home ownership

#823

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Inequality is another issue. Even with enough homes, if they are all owned by minority of the population who extract rents from the rest the situation remains pretty dire.

That's not an issue if there's supply. What you're describing (unsubstantiated) is a lack of supply being exploited.

Realistically we cannot build enough supply for distribution not to matter.

Re: Priced out of home ownership

#824
post #794

Earlier quoted context omitted.

5pc is considered the healthy level of vacancy because some apartments are always free as people move in and out. It’s similar to how totally full employment is actually a sign of a labor shortage.

Sure but on average Americans move once every ~7 years on average. A 5% vacancy rate would be ~4.2 months between owners/tenants which seems unnecessarily high. Most apartment complexes I was at could turn them over in a few weeks if someone wanted to move in. So 5% would seemingly represent a significant economic inefficiency. 3% may represent local shortages as Santa Monica is more desired than West Adams etc. So i…

People who rent tend to move more often than people who own a house. Landlords will often take an apartment out of the rental pool for a few months to remodel it.

Re: Priced out of home ownership

#825
post #274

People intuitively jump to the conclusion that the problem is caused by a lack of building. While more building would help, a lack of it isn't the main cause of this problem. Ask yourself, do Canada, Australia, New Zealand, the US, Britain, Ireland, etc, all have the same inability to build or is there maybe some other common cause? In my view this is symptomatic of a more fundamental issue - global asset price infla…

No, lack of building _is_ the main problem. It doesn't matter if the demand for homes is "artificial" or not - the easiest solution is to build more. > Ask yourself, do Canada, Australia, New Zealand, the US, Britain, Ireland, etc, all have the same inability to build or is there maybe some other common cause? This is something I've wondered, and I'm of the opinion there's two reasons that are rarely discussed. One i…

Doesn't the US already have something like the most sq footage of housing per capita in the world amongst major countries?

We have lots of secondary and tertiary homes, parked empty RVs, vacant investment properties, and lots of floor space per occupant, empty spare bedrooms, dedicated social entertainment rooms that are only used for parties, etc.

Re: Priced out of home ownership

#826
post #274

People intuitively jump to the conclusion that the problem is caused by a lack of building. While more building would help, a lack of it isn't the main cause of this problem. Ask yourself, do Canada, Australia, New Zealand, the US, Britain, Ireland, etc, all have the same inability to build or is there maybe some other common cause? In my view this is symptomatic of a more fundamental issue - global asset price infla…

No, lack of building _is_ the main problem. It doesn't matter if the demand for homes is "artificial" or not - the easiest solution is to build more. > Ask yourself, do Canada, Australia, New Zealand, the US, Britain, Ireland, etc, all have the same inability to build or is there maybe some other common cause? This is something I've wondered, and I'm of the opinion there's two reasons that are rarely discussed. One i…

> No, lack of building _is_ the main problem.

This might be one of those things where the obvious bit (built more!) is both true, and reductively incomplete. We do have a sense that just building more housing in the presence of lots of liquid capital and easy credit seems to create a speculator market -- even down to retail investors. (e.g. The China real estate bubble bursting seems to be strong evidence that this can happen.)

We also have some evidence that building a single type of housing leads to another kind of speculator bubble (e.g. the subprime mortgage crisis of the early 2000s was proceeded by a massive wave of construction of primarily giant single family homes for example). Even if somebody was interesting in buying something smaller at that time, there wasn't inventory anyways - yet those smaller housing units were not where prices increased the most (note: I'm aware I'm not providing specific evidence of this, but if memory serves it's basically correct) yet they often saw large increases in rental prices.

So from those two examples we can likely say that a market that:

1. Speculation causes housing prices to rise, even when millions of units are being built.

2. Lack of diversity in housing construction can lead to both high prices for some types of stock and lack of availability for others.

So how can we solve this beyond the trivial "build more"?

I'm starting to believe a few things are needed for a healthier housing market:

* We need to limit housing speculation, or at least make it less interesting as an investment option. In South Korea, they've introduced various taxation schemes that limit the appeal of owning multiple properties after decades of housing speculation. The idea there is that housing does exist, but occupancy rates are lower than desired. The result seems to have been an explosion in new housing starts with entire districts in Seoul being razed and rebuilt.

* We also need to find ways to ensure diversity in housing. Now that interest rates have gone up and single family homes seemed to have softened as a market, it seems that developers are concentrating on building "luxury" units of various other types. It's a good start, but if these units are still outpricing need, then they'll sit empty or end up speculated on. Many areas have dealt with this by mandating a certain amount of "affordable" housing, but that has turned into a joke in these areas.

There needs to be other ways for developers to build lower budget units, perhaps tax incentives, or changing zoning to allow for more types of housing.

Here's an example of the problem: The D.C. Metro recently added an entire new line to the system intended to connect the major international airport into the city. The areas around the new stations along the line have all been subject of new rezoning plans, higher density, urban fabric, etc. However, the construction that's happening along that line, while adding tens of thousands of new housing units, is almost all "luxury" (e.g. high price). One of the areas along the line is among the largest reurbanization projects on the planet (Tysons), and Reston/Herndon could grow into a contiguous "city" as large as many other "name recognized" cities in the U.S. like Providence, or Salt Lake City. Average housing unit prices in that area have been rising double digit percent per year (quarter over quarter) with the average home price (not just single family, but condos, town homes, etc.) is at around $700k USD. People who bought in this region even just a few years ago would be unable to afford their own homes today given pricing and interest rates.

So we see another example of "build more" and even "build more types" but aren't being met with "limit speculation" and "build more diversity" - and even in the presence of harder to get credit, the prices are spiraling.

Re: Priced out of home ownership

#827
post #274

People intuitively jump to the conclusion that the problem is caused by a lack of building. While more building would help, a lack of it isn't the main cause of this problem. Ask yourself, do Canada, Australia, New Zealand, the US, Britain, Ireland, etc, all have the same inability to build or is there maybe some other common cause? In my view this is symptomatic of a more fundamental issue - global asset price infla…

>Cheap credit causes an increase in demand. This is not demand for homes but additional 'artificial' demand for properties as investments. Think short term rentals, second homes, land banked properties, etc. By definition, only investment properties can be underutilised - owner occupied homes are occupied! So in an environment that encourages property investment you will see more underutilisation. An important nitpic…

That's comingling a few things, because a lot of the privileges around holding a home as an asset don't extend to investment properties. E.g. the easy availability of competitive mortgages and individual tax breaks.

Personally, I think we should lean into that -- make single family homes completely unattractive as an investment.

Rental units are more debatable, because of the density argument, but I think we should probably disincentize it as an asset class too. In favor of offering townhomes for sale.

Re: Priced out of home ownership

#828
post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sorry to recommend you that, but i have experience with homelessness. You have two temporary solutions: - join a group of squatters (hopefully you already know someone) until you get your bearings. The less ideological ones often squat old industrial properties, or long-abandoned houses (its rough in winter, but in Portugal you should be fine). You might meet some Urbex guys, they're nice and always fine with fin…

>join a group of squatters Lol, it really is true that "civilization" is three meals away from being kaput.

squatting solves the problem of individuals in civilizations being grossly uncivilized

Re: Priced out of home ownership

#829
post #274

People intuitively jump to the conclusion that the problem is caused by a lack of building. While more building would help, a lack of it isn't the main cause of this problem. Ask yourself, do Canada, Australia, New Zealand, the US, Britain, Ireland, etc, all have the same inability to build or is there maybe some other common cause? In my view this is symptomatic of a more fundamental issue - global asset price infla…

do Canada, Australia, New Zealand, the US, Britain, Ireland?

Yes they do. This is exactly the problem. Specifically in big cities. Zoning and nimby-ism holds back building. Even Toronto which builds a lot doesn’t build enough housing units to keep up with growth. And they only build as much as they do because the province is constantly overruling the city.

Every western major city is blocking building on any meaningful scale. This leaves cities at effectively net 0 increase in supply. In major US cities, new builds are more expensive to own due to changing property taxes. And California is just a huge F U to young people by making new owners have to pay higher taxes than the old ones.

Re: Priced out of home ownership

#830
post #304

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Both are band aids for the real problem. Housing can't both be an investment and a basic need. You need to pick one or find an opinionated middle ground. If housing is an investment, then remove all protections and open up the supply. No height regulations, no minum parking regulations, no mandatory HOAs. No moratoriams or legal protections when loans default. If housing is a need, then regulate it like a limited res…

[flagged]

It's bait, but I'll engage.

What part of Georgism is Anarcho-capitalism ? It is merely a way to reason about land and taxation.

For a country with near-zero historic buildings, the US has some of the most suffocating housing regulations. Making the regulations easier to navigate does not make it anarcho-capitalism.

The US housing crisis is an urban problem. Take California for example. Prop 13 handles land-taxation, which lets you pay pennies on prime real eastate. The Bay-area is the world's tech capital and has the world's most expensive real-estate. Yet you'd struggle to see an 5-floor+ building outside of a small pocket in down-town SF & SJ. Nimbys have practically outlawed any building by exploiting environmental regulations. The troubles associated with the new Apple Campus and the SJ downtown transit extension are recent examples among many.

In the above examples, housing of those who have it, is being protected by the laws as if it is a need. However, it explicitly prices-out those without housing through the same means. The individuals who protect their housing, do so to protect an investment. To me, taking away the ability of NIMBYs to project power outside their own walls limits exclusionary regulation. And standardizing taxation by land value generates the kind of fair-market pressure that keeps supply coming.

Now yes, it fully embraces housings as an investment, and it will inevtiably comes with it's fair share of problems. But first, investments come with well-understood regulations to avoid abuse (cartelization, hoarding). And second, I can't imagine how it would be anywhere close to how bad things are now.

If you have a better solution, then I'm all ears. But, at least don't be condescending if you aren't willing to engage.

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