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Netflix loses 1M users in Spain over password policing

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Re: Netflix loses 1M users in Spain over password policing

#821
post #806
post #717

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> According to Netflix, there is an initial wave of cancellations, but over the ensuing months, they end up with more paying subscribers than there were before the password-sharing crackdown. The question begging to be asked here is whether those are new subscribers or people that were using someone's else password, natural growth, or just a good show landed in meantime and a bunch of people subscribed

Yeah, we'll see how this works out for them in the long run. I have a feeling that the end result here is they'll drive away people who use them for years, and would have continued to use them for years out of loyalty, in exchange for customers who are a lot less attached to them, and will probably be more likely to cancel later on. It's an increasingly crowded market, everyone's distracted, everyone's sick of subscr…

> If I was going to alienate a major chunk of my userbase, this would not have been the time I would've picked.

It does seem like this was a plan that was in the works for a couple years, and momentum is keeping it moving. I doubt they would have picked this timing if they knew what was coming!

Re: Netflix loses 1M users in Spain over password policing

#823
post #483

Netflix really messed this up. They shouldn't have tried to tackle password sharing. Instead they should have enforced concurrent streams and let people pay for more concurrent streams. Psychologically it's very different and people paying for the premium plan of 4 streams would probably not be affected.

They should rename themselves to Qwikster.

Re: Netflix loses 1M users in Spain over password policing

#824
post #715

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So piracy gives you the best UI. Sure. But why do you believe your need for the best UI is enough to clear the bar for ethics when it comes to violating other people's IP rights? Stealing food from the store is way more convenient than going through the line. Best UI there is for grocery shopping.

The grand parent didn't say anything about selling or returning the DVD for a refund, so how is shifting formats to something more durable piracy? If it's just a backup I can't see any ethical reason why you shouldn't be able to do this. We went through all this in the courts when we got the rights to timeshift recorded TV programmes. Comparing it to stealing food is ridiculous. No body has been deprived of anything,…

> No body has been deprived of anything, it's just copyright violation.

The second part of your sentence doesn't follow from the first. If someone is violating a copyright, that someone else has been deprived of their rights to control their IP, and they're owed compensation. That's the system we set up, so that's the system we should follow.

If a rights holder wants to grant you the privilege of copying the data, that's great. Many of them actually do that. But that doesn't mean we're allowed to just violate the rights of those who choose otherwise. The response should be to consume media that is offered in favorable terms, not to pirate media just because you feel it's convenient.

Re: Netflix loses 1M users in Spain over password policing

#825
post #72
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely agree. I also had a family account that kept instead not watching anything anymore. In the end I felt like paying for watching propaganda that I could see for free in national television. This came at the perfect time as an excuse.

What kind of agenda/propaganda is it? Which values are promoted?

[deleted]

Re: Netflix loses 1M users in Spain over password policing

#826
post #514

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems like they never heard of the paradox of choice.

Their entire business model is that there is value in the long tail of possible choices. The paradox of choice is not a complete description of human behavior.

It is outdated. Streaming is now cable, which means the business model should revert back to be cable like. Get a couple of killer titles that carry the brand... Disney is doing this well with the Marvel titles. one ends, a new one starts, and they start putting ads of the "new" thing.

In short, without quality, there is no choice.

Re: Netflix loses 1M users in Spain over password policing

#827

Earlier quoted context omitted.

2, fixed) We got to have it our way for a while, then more companies wanted a piece of the pie, and now we don't get to have it our way anymore. They listened to consumers for a while. I stopped pirating for a good chunk of years because everything was glorious in the world of streaming. But after we finally got what we'd been asking for, they stopped giving that to us. So, yeah, I'm going to go elsewhere to get it,…

I'm not really judging, you do you, but you are confirming my original thoughts as to the motivations behind pirating being rooted in selfishness. I'm very selfish myself so that's not a statement of judgement.

Fair, dunno why I assumed as much. My bad!

Re: Netflix loses 1M users in Spain over password policing

#828

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Devil's advocate: Is their growth high enough? In our current system, you always have to be growing enough, not just profitable.

Maybe true, but that doesn’t mean it’s not a stupid system

It is certainly a stupid system.

Re: Netflix loses 1M users in Spain over password policing

#829

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So piracy gives you the best UI. Sure. But why do you believe your need for the best UI is enough to clear the bar for ethics when it comes to violating other people's IP rights? Stealing food from the store is way more convenient than going through the line. Best UI there is for grocery shopping.

Why do you think copyright is ethical? I certainly wouldn’t steal food from a store as that deprives the store of food. That seems cut and dry. If I could photograph food and turn it into food to feed myself, I would certainly do that, even if it was illegal. It doesn’t deprive the owner of anything. There’s lots of injustice in the world. And I think IP leans more towards unjust than just. Do I think creators should…

> Why do you think copyright is ethical?

I think following the law is ethical, and copyright is not only the law, it follows directly from the Constitution.

> If I could photograph food and turn it into food to feed myself, I would certainly do that, even if it was illegal.

Context and perspective. We're talking about a media landscape that is flush with content, to the point where people complain that it's all just rehashed. There's plenty of media to go around.

> It doesn’t deprive the owner of anything.

It deprives someone of their rights, which is something I think pirates don't really care about at all, as it's never considered in the calculus. It's always "what's more convenient for me and my desires to consume particular media, rights be damned". I wish pirates would just be frank and admit this like the other poster who was replying to me.

> I think copyright is designed and biased toward massive corporations to the detriment of society.

Me too. But I also enjoy the rule of law and the hard work of people who make content that I consume.

> There’s lots of injustice in the world. And I think IP leans more towards unjust than just. Do I think creators should be compensated? Yes. Do I think creators’ descendents should be compensated for 90 years? Probably not.

I would feel more sympathetic to this argument if pirates had ever given an inch, or seriously attempted to organize to fix the law in the US over the past 20 years. Instead, they just kept pirating as hard as they could, even when the industry moved toward streaming services, and rationalized their behavior away.

> I also feel like there’s a giant PR effort from wealthy entities against a few individuals and the fact that you’d equate downloading a movie with stealing food is so weird to me that it shows how distorted the discussion is.

So you're saying my strong feelings about copyright infringement are due to a PR campaign, and not a carefully considered position I've come to on my own, through my own experiences as a content creator, artist, and owner of copyrighted works?

I understand that some people are so blasé about violating copyrights, they don't even think they could possibly be doing anything wrong. On the other end of the spectrum are people who have to spend money and resources to defend their rights from violations of law by others. I fully understand that digital media and physical goods are not the same. But I categorically reject that zero people are harmed when copyrights are violated.

> “rights” that only exist because of successful lobbying on behalf of a very tiny industry

As I said, copyright is a fundamental provision of the US Constitution. We can talk about the parameters of "securing for limited Times" but "exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries." is not up for debate. The word "exclusive" is important here.

And as for the size of the industry interested in copyright... upending copyright would also upend trademarks and patents. There's a much larger industry (well... all of them) interested in those forms of IP.

Re: Netflix loses 1M users in Spain over password policing

#830

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Devil's advocate: Is their growth high enough? In our current system, you always have to be growing enough, not just profitable.

That’s the big brain thinking that leads to the enshitification of products. It’s also quite frankly impossible to grow forever. Market saturation is a thing, as is the number of atoms you can convert to paper clips.

I agree with you, yet here we are, investors expecting more and more meteoric returns QoQ, YoY.
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