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EU-wide maximum limit of €10K for cash payments

consilium.europa.eu

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Re: EU-wide maximum limit of €10K for cash payments

#821

Post by mdp2021 »

B8MGHCBekDuRi wrote: post #799
mdp2021 wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> to decrease tax evasion Through a very obscure logic, since payment cap cannot exclude unregistered payments.

the marginal value of small transactions is negligible. If you want to evade taxes by skimming 5 cents on each coffee, you have to sell 200.000 unregistered coffees to save 1.000 euros. Which is more than 3 times what an average Italian bar sells every year.

Like for other measures, especially in the past few years, measures are taken and justified though a broad vague irrational paternalistic shout ("For the children"), and we are left with the unduly burden of trying to reconstruct the logic (if any plausible exists).

Re: EU-wide maximum limit of €10K for cash payments

#822

Post by mdp2021 »

peoplefromibiza wrote: post #741
mdp2021 wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What we «prefer» - sorry, radically "will" - is to live in dignity. This implies, no record of personal purchases around. The current "fight against cash" goes in direction of that risk.

> This implies, no record of personal purchases around. What's stopping peoole to do it? I regularly pay my drinks cash. I never paid a beer more than 10k though... > The current "fight against cash" goes in direction of that risk. I'm glad that when I pay someone for something they can't say I didn't do it and ask for the money again. That includes the State. I paid my taxes, here's the proof. I already paid my ener…

> What's stopping peoole to do it?

Bad question. Good question instead: "What seems to be the trend which may be at some point stop people from doing it".

> what you are talking about

You do not get the point. Of course one is glad to have the ability to prove transactions that one wants to be recorded; the issue is with the threats to the ability of carrying on transactions that one does not want to be recorded.

Re: EU-wide maximum limit of €10K for cash payments

#824

Post by nix23 »

Quarrelsome wrote: post #811
nix23 wrote: post #726

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So another criminal say to me sorry i don't take your black-market money it's illegal, or the money-washing pizzeria?

if a criminal gives another criminal money then the money is still black. You need to launder it to make it white. Now its harder to launder large quantities because you have to turn it into even smaller chunks.

>You need to launder it to make it white.

Yes i buy drugs and sell them...i don't think the mafia has anything against that money, they will then just give it to the Vatican bank to wash it.

If you really don't understand that this i just a excuse....

Re: EU-wide maximum limit of €10K for cash payments

#825

Post by Georgelemental »

hansworst wrote: post #717
torstenvl wrote: post #623

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And if someone illegally occupies the front seat of a bus, or a diner counter? Is it also okay to keep them from something that belongs to them then?

If someone illegally occupied your house, would you be okay with them getting fined for it?

Of course! After they are convicted of a crime, following a fair and public trial, or guilty plea

Re: EU-wide maximum limit of €10K for cash payments

#826

Post by Georgelemental »

franey wrote: post #600
xyzzyz wrote: post #580

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In his home country, you couldn't trust the banks, so people hid their money. Of course that kind of thinking is silly in Australia, but good luck explaining that to someone with war-trauma. Not too long ago we saw the Canadian government freeze bank accounts of people for protesting the Covid measures. Don’t think that it cannot happen in your country.

For people not familiar with Canadian politics, this summary missed some important nuance. Bank accounts were frozen for some people who donated money to support an illegal occupation of part of Canada's capital city, Ottawa. The occupation was a mix of people protesting COVID measures and others demanding that Justin Trudeau resign. https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/emergency-bank-measures-fin...

To add more important nuance, people had their bank accounts frozen without them being convicted or even charged with a crime.

Re: EU-wide maximum limit of €10K for cash payments

#827

Post by Georgelemental »

epolanski wrote: post #753
chmod775 wrote: post #737

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So because people don't routinely make use of their freedom to pay in cash, it's okay to take it away? I now understand why some people in the states walk around openly carrying firearms, exercising their rights.

What the hell is "freedom to pay in cash" even supposed to mean. Why would I, a buyer, have any reason to want to receive large sums of money phisically rather than digitally if it's not for tax evasion? Having lots of money on you is dangerous and a hassle. There's literally no good reason for this "freedom" that isn't tax evasion, money laundering or paranoid "being controlled".

Sending or receiving money digitally generally requires entrusting that money to a bank, and some people don't trust banks or can't easily get a bank account.

Re: EU-wide maximum limit of €10K for cash payments

#828

Post by [deleted] »

Teandw wrote: post #386
olivermarks wrote: post #253

'By limiting large cash payments, the EU will make it harder for criminals to launder dirty money. ' Bizarre how the EU is penalizing everyone in order to 'make it harder for criminals to launder dirty money'. People pay taxes in order to have their bureaucrats serve them by creating a safe financial and social environment, not to have them assume everyone is a criminal/terrorist and greatly impede access to their as…

"Bizarre how the EU is penalizing everyone in order to 'make it harder for criminals to launder dirty money'." This likely affects a number of people that is so small, that it's irrelevant. Not sure it makes sense to say that such a law that effects a tiny number of individuals is penalizing everyone.

[deleted]

Re: EU-wide maximum limit of €10K for cash payments

#829

Post by alkonaut »

nottorp wrote: post #321
alkonaut wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Ok, so I'm curious about this place where you live where most restaurants don't accept cash This is in Sweden. > Legal tender laws say that cash must be accepted as payment for all debts. Yes. But those apparently aren’t absolute and non-negotiable. The Riksbank is actually concerned about this, because it’s affecting the ability for the economy to function in a crisis, as well as the ability to make anonymous tran…

> This is in Sweden. Does Sweden accept Visa/MC or they have some weird local card in most places? Just checking in case i ever play the tourist in Sweden. Had trouble in NL.

Visa/MC accepted everywhere. We also have a domestic mobile payment system but you wouldn’t need that.

Re: EU-wide maximum limit of €10K for cash payments

#830

Post by kasdi »

koliber wrote: post #786
teo_zero wrote: post #730

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Money is not zero sum. It is created and destroyed as loans are made and repaid. I don't think this is true. Every transaction, even the ones that take place in the rows of a bank's database and not with physical money, involve an amount added to some account and an identical amount subtracted from another account. Even loans don't create money: the issuing bank have the amount subtracted from its reserves the exac…

You can create new money, legally. Imagine the whole world has 1,000,000 dollars right now. This is made up of all cash. You have 100,000 of those dollars. You decide to buy a car for $10,000 from a friend. You go look at the car, like it, and agree to buy it. You sign the necessary paperwork and you tell your friend that you will bring him the 10,000 cash tomorrow. You drive home. You just created 10,000 out of thin…

It might be helpful to expand the example to make it even clearer.

Until you repay the debt to your friend, you can spend the 10,000, because you hold it in your pocket. But your friend can also spend the debt you own him, for example, by asking another person to get a loan on that loan.

So yeah, "free money"! Until one creditor somewhere in that long chain asks the debitor to pay up their debt...

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