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Nobody wants to teach anymore

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Re: Nobody wants to teach anymore

#821

Post by briHass »

ryandrake wrote: post #794
briHass wrote: post #788

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is it always about more money? The US is usually in the top 3 spending per student (beaten only by small countries that represent statistical outliers like Norway or Luxemburg), so really, it spends the most. Yet, as many are quick to point out, all that money results in educational outcomes well below many European countries and also many Asian countries that spend far, far less.

The money is largely not going to teacher salaries, classroom supplies, or to anything that affects "educational outcomes".

So you claim.

Luckily, this is researched extensively, and schools must publish budgets. Typically, spending on 'instruction' is >60% of the expenditures, almost all of that is salaries and benefits. Capital outlay is usually around 8-10%, support services and administration around 10%, operations and maintenance around 10%, and around 5% for transportation/bussing.

Contrary to the typical claims that 'administration' or capital costs suck up all the money, the majority of the money does go to teachers' salary.

Re: Nobody wants to teach anymore

#822

Post by astrange »

areoform wrote: post #125
zarzavat wrote: post #46

The problem/solution is YouTube. There is prestige in being a YouTube super-teacher like 3B1B, teaching millions of people. There is no prestige in teaching kids at a local high school who don't even want to learn. The smart people who once might have found their vocation in teaching, now prefer to set up YouTube channels. The role of teacher is splitting into content makers and babysitters.

Believe it or not, YouTube is not good pedagogy. A YouTube video doesn't help you to fill in the gaps of your understanding by re-working a difficult concept with you. A YouTube video, nor an app, doesn't go through the steps of solving a problem with you, and watch how you do it to give you constructive criticism. Educational content is amazing, but it's not teaching. It's a resource. It's like saying that the exist…

It’s a great improvement over older videos in the classroom though, since there’s feedback from the actual viewers.

(I vaguely remember being shown some educational video in class that was over half old wireframey CGI transitions with what an old person thought technobabble looked like all over it. It was supposed to be about the environment.)

Re: Nobody wants to teach anymore

#824

Post by sudosysgen »

auslegung wrote: post #813
sudosysgen wrote: post #807

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even when they can handle it as best as you can expect from someone, it's still not going to be enough. You can reduce class sizes by hiring more teachers. Their salaries aren't actually a huge fraction of education spending (only around ~15% if you assume one teacher for every 30 fulltime students and 80k TC per fulltime teacher, both of which are deliberate overestimates). Hire 30% more teachers, give them a 30% pa…

I like a lot of what you say, but > Reduce school hours that are very often lengthened for babysitting reasons. This babysitting is vital for many families, most of whom are low income and can’t afford alternatives. If we reduce class hours we should provide something to keep children positively occupied.

I agree, we should, but we don't necessarily need teachers to do that. At my school we had an after hours service where the monitors would have kids play outside, play/learn boardgames, watch educationalish movies, learn to cook, etc.., for an extra 3-5$ a day for up to 4 hours. The class sizes were much larger of course and there is no correction or study plan involved. I think that's a good and economical solution to this very real problem. Of course it should be free for lower income households if not for everyone.

Personally my parents just made me walk around, though ;)

Re: Nobody wants to teach anymore

#825

Post by OldBrev »

dorchadas wrote: post #141
_vdpp wrote: post #98

A few random thoughts: 1. For as much as we spend on education, teachers seem to be grossly underpaid - to be getting robbed of their share of the budget. Where does that money go? 2. It seems that education degrees are seen as easier to achieve than others. 3. Teachers frequently complain about how they are unappreciated, yet children spend _12 years_ in their care. Why do people come up to them and say they hated s…

As a former teacher from the States (and maybe will go back to it one day, either internationally, or in another country permanently, depending on how life works out), I'd live to give my answers to some of this. Note, I'm biased. My undergraduate degree was not in teaching but in physics. I did a masters programme in teaching to transition to becoming a teacher. I enjoyed teaching, but just ended up finding it borin…

No post body was provided.

Re: Nobody wants to teach anymore

#826

Post by astrange »

Tomte wrote: post #453
ekimekim wrote: post #360

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those...sound like reasonable things? Many students aren't going to learn by rote memorization of completing homework. It it helpful to support different learning styles. A big problem with math education is that it's too abstract. It's hard to relate mathematical concepts to real life. "When are we going to use this?", people ask. Phrasing your questions in terms of real problems with a narrative can help students l…

Homework usually isn't rote learning (unless we're talking foreign language vocabulary – and there rote learning is important!), but practice. Students get to practice what the teacher (tried to) showed them with different problems, so both they and the teacher can see if they mastered the topic.

IIRC most of the evidence shows homework isn’t very useful for learning.

(And, unfortunately, that almost no skills generally transfer over to other skills, ie that practicing math doesn’t improve anything other than that specific math.)

Re: Nobody wants to teach anymore

#827

Post by OldBrev »

koolba wrote: post #330
_vdpp wrote: post #98

A few random thoughts: 1. For as much as we spend on education, teachers seem to be grossly underpaid - to be getting robbed of their share of the budget. Where does that money go? 2. It seems that education degrees are seen as easier to achieve than others. 3. Teachers frequently complain about how they are unappreciated, yet children spend _12 years_ in their care. Why do people come up to them and say they hated s…

> Many school problems are caused by disruptive children. Being able to fire your students is greatest advantage that private schools have over public ones.

No post body was provided.

Re: Nobody wants to teach anymore

#828

Post by dnissley »

archduck wrote: post #778
dnissley wrote: post #713

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that this type of reply reflects your own deeply unexamined prior (e.g. that software can't play a part of solving this issue, or that anyone who said X believes Y, etc.), and so sets up an antagonistic interaction with the other person where you are each arguing from atop your ladders of inference, rather than climbing down those ladders and deconstructing those priors in more detail.

On the other hand, some contributions to a conversation are simply beyond the boundaries of common sense in such a way (blindingly obvious, unacceptable, dangerously naive, etc.) that ridicule is appropriate. Even if the contribution was made in good faith. Ridicule has numerous powerful social functions: it helps social groups self-govern, transmits knowledge from one generation to the next, enables social groups to…

Why was this instance a good use case for ridicule?

As you admit, the question asker might very well have been genuinely curious. The answer to their question doesn't seem blindingly obvious to me (although I can certainly speculate about good reasons that grading isn't automated). I can't tell what you mean by "unacceptable" (perhaps there is some cultural taboo you're referring to here?). And it also doesn't seem "dangerously naive", which might apply where someone asking this question had decision making power in a critical situation, but clearly doesn't apply here.

By the very criteria you lay out, this doesn't seem like an instance in which ridicule was necessary or good. To me, it feels like a weak justification for bullying someone who thinks differently about something you obviously feel very strongly about.

Re: Nobody wants to teach anymore

#829

Post by irrational »

moeris wrote: post #815
BuyMyBitcoins wrote: post #353

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>”The worst that can happen is they will be fired, but they can probably find a new teaching position easily since there is such a high demand.” Just like any career, the next institution looking to hire someone is going to ask about why that person left their last job. Regardless of whether or not the next school is public or private, they’re going to want to hire a teacher that is compliant rather than defiant. Eve…

> the next institution looking to hire someone is going to ask about why that person left their last job Indeed, schools aren't as isolated as businesses are, either. If you go rogue and make a huge stink at one school, you can bet no nearby district will hire you. On the other hand, if you play ball and do a decent job, other districts will look out for you when an opening happens. It happened to me, right before I…

My local school district is so desperate they are letting anyone substitute teach (they used to require a masters degree before you could be a substitute!) and have some substitutes basically teaching full time. I’m pretty sure they would be delighted to have an actually qualified teacher, no matter what problems they had before.

Re: Nobody wants to teach anymore

#830

Post by xxEightyxx »

gorgoiler wrote: post #645

I tried teaching high school CS for the best part of two years in a private school. Everything to do with the pupils was amazing and I loved every moment. I am a natural with behaviour management and although it was stressful, every time the bad kids acted up it presented a teachable moment. You could really feel the impact on their lives and behaviour, well behind the Python and the TCP/IP and while loops. But every…

I don't think that's an accurate description nor representation of every teacher. Most of the teachers I know are in the profession because they love to teach - so much so that it outweighs all the negatives you've presented here.

My experience is only at the college level and the environment is not much better (again, anecdotal experience, not representative of all universities). There's a huge amount of infighting and drama - primarily between professors/faculty and the administration. Mostly centered around power and control.

It's quite remarkable how folks can have such ego and hubris in any job let alone in places of education.

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