Apple has no obligation to do anything. Messaging is broken on Android and it isn’t helped by Google’s stewardship. So the Android fans want Apple to swoop in and save them? No. That’s not how this works.
“It’s time for Apple to fix texting”
821–830 of 1001 posts
Re: “It’s time for Apple to fix texting”
#822Earlier quoted context omitted.
> If Android wants to join the party, then Android phone builders need to implement secure boot with hardware-signed attestation of non-rooted-ness, in the style of Apple T2 + macOS or Microsoft Pluton + Secure Boot. Until then, Apple iMessage will remain single platform. This exists and has existed for years, via the SafetyNet Attestation API [1]. [1]: https://developer.android.com/training/safetynet/attestation
As indicated elsethread, that API doc expressly declares near the top that it is not usable for device identifiers. Without device identifiers, there is no way to stop spammers.
1. No, you don't need device IDs to stop spammers.
2. I don't think you know what you're talking about. Android supports the device attestation: https://source.android.com/security/keystore/attestation
> ID attestation allows the device to provide proof of its hardware identifiers, such as serial number or IMEI.
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-bweeks-acme-device-at...
It feels like you've concocted some narrative to support your incredibly speculative original comment about how Apple does this because spam. You're clearly wrong. You can do attested compute on Android as others have been trying to point out.
Re: “It’s time for Apple to fix texting”
#823I can understand Google's frustration but they have no one to blame but themselves. Everyone is familiar with their graveyard of failed messaging applications (along with their graveyard of products generally). When I had an android phone, I tried RCS with someone else on Android. It never worked. I'm sure it's improved, but as the common theme of this story goes, Google blew their chance. I also don't trust google t…
> Everyone is familiar with their graveyard of failed messaging applications (along with their graveyard of products generally).
I agree
And that's why Whatsapp and maybe Telegram/Signal/etc are the "standards" today
Re: “It’s time for Apple to fix texting”
#824I'm honestly getting to the point where I want to ban sms entirely from my phone, 99% of the messages I'd receive are spam / phishing / advertising related. How does RCS solve this?
Re: “It’s time for Apple to fix texting”
#825I would agree more if the RCS standard wasn’t also hot garbage… I would encourage anyone who is curious to read more about it. It’s taken so long to gain traction that it has also become somewhat legacy. Also, it still requires a carrier sponsored phone plan? How is this “modern” in comparison to say every other carrier agnostic messaging app in existence? Also this: https://twitter.com/RonAmadeo/status/1480679515298…
I don’t love phone based identity but it’s wrong to say it has no benefits.
While it does lock you out if you don’t pay, at least you won’t be locked out by accident since you can generally prove your identity to the carrier. This obviously is a con (sms hijacking) but for many people it’s much more important.
Not to mention the importance of phone numbers being basically universal which is why 3rd party messaging apps haven’t totally replaced sms. RCS has the potential to do so, or at least cut down on sms usage further.
Re: “It’s time for Apple to fix texting”
#826As someone who worked around Windows Phone and had to deal with Google's unwillingness to support other eco systems; Pound sand android.
Companies will always act in their own best interest, that doesn't mean you should let spite get in the way of what would be a positive change for consumers. Google sucks. Apple sucks. Microsoft sucks. Unifying a broken ecosystem is a net positive regardless of which entity happens to be championing it
Precisely why apple is acting in their best interest. I don't want RCS or anything to do with Google on my phone.
Re: “It’s time for Apple to fix texting”
#827Earlier quoted context omitted.
Attestation is service that can only be provided by the builder of the phone. Most commercially available Android phones provide this, and banks and DRM rely on it. https://developer.android.com/training/safetynet/attestation and https://developer.android.com/google/play/integrity/overview
That API is not useful for anti-spam purposes, as individual devices cannot be banned for spamming by their serial number. Quoting that page: > The API is not designed to fulfill the following use cases: > Contain signals for app-specific use-cases, such as device identifiers
Android does provide device attestation via Keymaster 3 and has for years: https://source.android.com/security/keystore/attestation
SafetyNet does not specifically give you a device ID, but keystore attestation does. SafetyNet is a higher-level API used to verify you're in a trusted compute environment (which is also sufficient for anti-spam, btw). The keystore attestation API provides everything you need to acquire signed data directly from the HSM with things like device IDs and security trust level baked in.
You need to read up: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-bweeks-acme-device-at...
Re: “It’s time for Apple to fix texting”
#828Most businesses, consumers, and developers universally continue to ignore the primary reason that iMessage is a closed platform, rather than an app on every platform as iTunes is: Apple is using device serial numbers for anti-spam, supported by a fully-authenticated hardware and software stack that does not allow user modification. This permits Apple to simply “console ban” any Apple device that spams on iMessage. Th…
I get imessage spam every day. I report junk every time, but it seems like they have infinite accounts.
Re: “It’s time for Apple to fix texting”
#829Earlier quoted context omitted.
I have infinite free SMS per month and I uses less than 1 a month. In Europe everyone uses WhatsApp.
> In Europe everyone uses WhatsApp. That's a bit of an overstatement and really depend on who you ask. I'd say that no-one uses WhatsApp. I know exactly two people who uses WhatsApp, but that also not representative of their actual marketshare.
https://www.similarweb.com/corp/blog/research/market-researc...
I see that it’s more limited to Western Europe but it really is dominant in a lot of markets.
But that’s not really the point, the point is that also in the markets where the network effect causes the majority of people to use Telegram, Viber or Facebook Messenger, they’re mostly not using SMS, because even if it is free, a messenger service is better.
Re: “It’s time for Apple to fix texting”
#830It sounds like RCS is simply some additional specs on top of IMS, which is the basis of VoLTE/VoWiFI and IMS is some additional specs on top of SIP.