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Worker pay isn’t keeping up with inflation

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Re: Worker pay isn’t keeping up with inflation

#821

Post by aeternum »

actually_a_dog wrote: post #121
aeternum wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Depends on whether we're talking about real or nominal wages. Regardless, my main point is that most people must switch jobs to see the increase. Wages grew 6.6% for job switchers so it is keeping up with inflation. IT and professional services was 10.5%+ but again only for job switchers. https://www.valuepenguin.com/news/ADP-wage-growth-report

So, the economically rational thing for everyone to do is to engage in this gigantic game of musical chairs, if they care about the number at the bottom of their paystub? That's silly, and a great way to throw away a lot of specialized domain knowledge.

There's a lot of value in playing musical chairs. The market is pretty good at allocating human labor. Some companies get left without people in the seats and others, often the more innovative companies end up with more than they had before.

A labor market with high liquidity leaves most people better off.

Re: Worker pay isn’t keeping up with inflation

#822

Post by tsimionescu »

newfriend wrote: post #749
tsimionescu wrote: post #378

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hard on crime and hard on immigration IS the far right. Sure, if the old parties had veered far-right, new far-right parties wouldn't have shown up. The problem are not the parties, the problem are the policies. Kicking immigrants out or licking them up will not improve the life of the local lower class, despite all the promises. It may improve the life of the rich, who won't have to fear bring mugged. But the reason…

Ceasing the funnel of endless low-skill, wage-depressing job competitors absolutely would improve the life of the lower class. They also have to deal with increased crime, it's not a uniquely "rich" problem. These parties are growing in popularity because it's a reaction to a real problem that locals are witnessing as their communities are changed for the worse. Back in the 80s/90s, Sweden was known for bikini teams…

Poor neighborhoods always have more crime than rich neighborhoods. This doesn't particularly change if the poor are native or immigrants.

The real problem is wage theft keeping large numbers of people poor. Whether immigrants or natives, the fact that you can work your whole life for a mega corporation and barely have money to eat is the problem.

Re: Worker pay isn’t keeping up with inflation

#823

Post by tsimionescu »

jlawson wrote: post #801
tsimionescu wrote: post #378

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hard on crime and hard on immigration IS the far right. Sure, if the old parties had veered far-right, new far-right parties wouldn't have shown up. The problem are not the parties, the problem are the policies. Kicking immigrants out or licking them up will not improve the life of the local lower class, despite all the promises. It may improve the life of the rich, who won't have to fear bring mugged. But the reason…

You've got the class relationship with immigrants backwards. Poor people are more likely to be victims of low-level crimes than rich people for a variety of reasons. When criminal immigrants come in, it's poor people they victimize. It's also poor people who must compete with unskilled immigrants for jobs. Rich people benefit from low-skilled immigration. They can isolate themselves physically from the bad immigrant…

Nothing you're describing would change if we replace "immigrant" with "poor person". This is all a problem of minimum wages, employment law enforcement and others, not a problem of immigration. For as long as people are allowed to hire others while.not paying for a minimally decent life, this problem will continue existing.

Re: Worker pay isn’t keeping up with inflation

#824

Post by scollet »

cabraca wrote: post #454
moonchrome wrote: post #415

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> if you have to slave away Yeah this is the reality disconnect, if you call modern work slaving away you're probably not the kind of person that's going to join a violent revolt, it's easy to write that shit on forums.

If you call "80h weeks at Kellogs" not slaving away i dont know what is... If you call "Amazon workers not being allowed to leave or shelter when there is a tornado warning" not slaving away i dont know what is... What about all those "Gig Economy" Workers that get paid the bare minimum without benefits? You might not see it from your cozy office because this development hasn't impacted you yet ... but it will sooner…

I think the thrust of the issue is having to pay to exist. Doing otherwise is criminal.

It's not a light switch, but we can try paving the roads at the bare minimum so that the societal wagon train can transition.

I do what I can, and you might do as well, but there needs a fundamental ideological shift in how we perceive those cornerstone workers.

Re: Worker pay isn’t keeping up with inflation

#825

Post by TheCoelacanth »

PaulDavisThe1st wrote: post #711
treis wrote: post #696

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>What's the cost to get to that point? It used to 2x annual salary, it's now nearly 6x annual salary. It's just not. You're not accounting for the interest paid over 30 years of a mortgage.

No, I'm assuming best case: zero interest. You might be arguing that 1970's cost-as-multiple-of-earnings plus 1970-accumulated-interest exceeds 2020's equivalent. Is that your point?

That "best-case" is unrealistically favorable to the 1970s buyer. In 2020, you can almost get that zero interest mortgage. In the 1970s, you are going to be paying at least 10% on top of that.

Re: Worker pay isn’t keeping up with inflation

#826

Post by vmception »

xapata wrote: post #818
vmception wrote: post #817

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes and the shoppers find one, the trend is that the unit they find and pick - no matter what the shopper lands on - was rented higher than the last time, because the landlord set it higher than the last time. This didn't have to occur, the landlord could have done the prior price, the lower price, even in the face of demand and people willing to close quickly at the new higher price.

Why would the landlord choose to rent at below market rates? I think we've drifted from the question of whether the rental apartment market is competitive. If a landlord chooses to consistently rent below market rates, for whatever foolish reason, then they'll probably wind up selling the building to someone who knows what the market rate is. It might take a while, but it'll happen eventually.

The point is to place the gentrification blame on the landlords instead of the people who happen to be able to afford the stated price

Re: Worker pay isn’t keeping up with inflation

#828

Post by ergocoder »

Shish2k wrote: post #333
ergocoder wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google HR answered this question in a company-wide forum. It is mostly the market (e.g. the other company pay high, so we do too). The living cost doesn't really matter. I appreciate the honesty though.

Facebook HR also got the same question (with the same answer) in the company-wide forum this week. Did I miss some big news story that’s causing this to be on everybody’s mind recently?

This was years ago at Google. This question is not new

Re: Worker pay isn’t keeping up with inflation

#829

Post by fuzzfactor »

throwawaycities wrote: post #262
Gareth321 wrote: post #250

Real wages have been flat since the 1970s ( https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2018/08/07/for-most-us... ). "Okay, so people's living standards are about the same since 1970?" Not even close. The problem with inflation is that its calculation is fraught with all kinds of selective weighting, bias, and politics. Take a look at the relative differences between the things which have decreased and increased in cost in…

Glad this was the top comment. Wages have not kept up with cost of living for 50 years in the US. We need to stop pretending flat wages are some modern problem of inflation, and we need to stop pretending inflation is some problem caused by the pandemic.

>Worker pay isn’t keeping up with inflation

If this wasn't a predictable outcome when inflation is triggered, it would be imposed by design.

Re: Worker pay isn’t keeping up with inflation

#830

Post by decebalus1 »

simonh wrote: post #791
decebalus1 wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They know that whatever happens to them, they will get decent health care, their kids will get a decent education, and they’re more likely to get fair treatment from their employer. And as a former manager once told me, 'one needs the constant fear of homelessness to keep workers in line'. That is the real engine of innovation /s

I don’t see how that can work. People in fear are going to be more risk averse, surely, and innovation is always risky. I mean clearly the US is still a very innovative economy, it’s not like everyone is constantly in fear of starvation any second. But still, I don’t see how fear promotes innovation. There are many economic and societal factors in the US that promote risk taking and innovation, but fear of hunger in…

It doesn't, I was being sarcastic.
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