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Apple's child protection features spark concern within its own ranks: sources

reuters.com

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Re: Apple's child protection features spark concern within its own ranks: sources

#821

Post by bluepoint »

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #223
whoisjuan wrote: post #132

This CSAM Prevention initiative by Apple is a 180 degress change of their general message around privacy. Imagine investing hundreds of millions of dollars in pro-privacy programs, privacy features, privacy marketing, etc... just to pull this reverse card. Of course this is going to spark concern within their own ranks. It's like working for a food company that claims to use organic, non-processed, fair-trade ingredi…

I actually think something else happened, and to be honest I think many at Apple behind this decision are likely pretty surprised by the blowback. That is, it seems like Apple really wanted to preserve "end-to-end" encryption, but they needed to do something to address the CSAM issue lest governments come down on them hard. Thus, my guess is, at least at the beginning, they saw this as a strong win for privacy. As th…

I also think that some kind of negotiation between Apple and the government happened in the background. Probably something like “don’t break up the company and we give you a backdoor”. Maybe we throw stones at the wrong window? I wish we could know more about this, but it is probably that the inner workings of state surveillance are not meant to be public. What do we do?

Re: Apple's child protection features spark concern within its own ranks: sources

#822

Post by banach »

I dont know, somehow since Apple decided it was going to force spyware onto its most dedicated (all-in-on iCloud) users, my excitement about the M1 and all the cool things I was going to do in the Apple ecosystem has withered away. I am looking around for alternatives, the way I was in thn 00s, when I abandoned Microsoft, initially embracing Linux, but then happily transitioning to macOS and later iOS. Unless Apple does an about-face, I know I will be going back to Linux, on some privacy-friendly hardware vendor. We have cross platform communication tools and decent alternatives to most of what Apple has to offer. Obviously it is not as pleasant an experience, but there are limits to what I can tolerate for the sake of comfort.

Re: Apple's child protection features spark concern within its own ranks: sources

#823

Post by bqmjjx0kac »

GekkePrutser wrote: post #660
londons_explore wrote: post #608

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> help older family members recover from lost passwords and broken phones, Apple just needs to design good UX to help these people. Perhaps a large cardboard 'key' comes with every phone. When first setting up the phone, you scan a QR code on it to encrypt your data with the key, and then you tell the owner that of they ever lose the key to their phone, they won't be able to get in again. People understand that - it'…

You don't want that key to be in the box. Because of Apple printed it, they know it. It's better if the key is generated when you already have the phone.

Apple also pushes software updates to the phone, so does it really matter? I'd be more concerned about a third party intercepting and copying the key.

Re: Apple's child protection features spark concern within its own ranks: sources

#824

Post by unityByFreedom »

sneak wrote: post #813
unityByFreedom wrote: post #798

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They didn't unlock that phone for the FBI. The FBI got some foreign contractor to do it. Yes, Apple did turn over data to which they had access. Their stance back then was not a farce.

They didn't need to, all of the phone's data was in a non-e2e iCloud Backup, which they did unlock for the FBI. Hence, farce.

That's called a conspiracy theory.

Re: Apple's child protection features spark concern within its own ranks: sources

#825

Post by simondotau »

zepto wrote: post #762
fsflover wrote: post #671

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The slippery slope arguments don’t make sense Yes, they do: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28160092

No they don’t. Searches for things other than CSAM would be inadmissible under the 4th amendment. https://www.economist.com/united-states/2021/08/12/a-38-year...

But only because Apple is doing the searches on device. If the searching is done in the cloud, the third party doctrine means that the US Government could demand anything and the 4th Amendment wouldn't apply.

Re: Apple's child protection features spark concern within its own ranks: sources

#826

Post by pyuser583 »

whoisjuan wrote: post #132

This CSAM Prevention initiative by Apple is a 180 degress change of their general message around privacy. Imagine investing hundreds of millions of dollars in pro-privacy programs, privacy features, privacy marketing, etc... just to pull this reverse card. Of course this is going to spark concern within their own ranks. It's like working for a food company that claims to use organic, non-processed, fair-trade ingredi…

It would feel a lot less creepy if they just scanned files on their servers like everyone else.

Is it supposed to make us feel better the scanning is happening on our own devices instead of someone else’s?

It certainly increases the “creep factor.”

Re: Apple's child protection features spark concern within its own ranks: sources

#827

Post by pyuser583 »

kirillzubovsky wrote: post #724
prophesi wrote: post #392

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But I agree with Ben Thompson's point in that blog post, that it's OK to not have strong, unbreakable encryption be the default, and that it's still possible to use an iPhone without iCloud and get full E2E. I disagree completely on this. For one, users aren't aware that using iCloud means that Apple has your decryption key and can thereby read and share all of your phone's data. And two, opt-out is a dark pattern.…

Indeed, up until reading these comments I had no idea that iCloud wasn’t encrypted. Everything about Apples messaging makes you believe otherwise. That seems pretty disingenuous. Then again, 99% of consumers have very little choice that doesn’t include huddles and complicated setup. We all get the same moon goo, under a differ different brands. Good, bad, or just the fact of life?

It is encrypted. But Apple controls the key.

Re: Apple's child protection features spark concern within its own ranks: sources

#828

Post by pyuser583 »

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #255
roody15 wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is, it seems like Apple really wanted to preserve "end-to-end" encryption,“ … except they still have not mentioned anything about E2E encryption… and they currently don’t encrypt icloud backups. You would think apple would get ahead of this story and mention … or maybe they don’t have any E2E plans at all.

This blog post got a lot of commentary on HN a couple days ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28118350 . iMessages are already E2E encrypted, but you are correct, iCloud backups are decryptable with a warrant (and that was reportedly added at the FBI's request). But I agree with Ben Thompson's point in that blog post, that it's OK to not have strong, unbreakable encryption be the default, and that it's still p…

iPhones are already continuously scanning your photos. Every notice how it recognizes faces and organizes your photos by them?

You can’t turn that off!!

There’s no way to tell the iPhone, “stop with the AI recognition on my photos.”

Since Apple has decided it’s going to categorize all your photos based on AI, it was just a matter of time before they started categorizing some bad stuff.

Re: Apple's child protection features spark concern within its own ranks: sources

#829

Post by pyuser583 »

I have a story to share:

When my daughter was three years old, we started giving her some IPad time.

She learned about Kids YouTube, and wanted to become a “Youtuber.”

Unbeknownst to us, she began making extremely long, detailed videos teachings other kids how to perform her latest accomplishment: how to use the potty.

She then pushed a series of icons which, she believed, uploaded the videos to YouTube for the world to see.

She then offhandedly informed us that she had been teaching other kids how to use the potty. By YouTube.

Much screaming and shouting ensued. Ultimately we determine she wasn’t uploading anything, and couldn’t even if she knew how.

She did however have several hours worth of videos showing th world how to use the potty.

She was quite upset when we deleted them.

Leaving aside debate on the “scanning photos against a database of hashes”, I hope that the parent-enabled features are useful.

Re: Apple's child protection features spark concern within its own ranks: sources

#830

Post by lugged »

whoisjuan wrote: post #132

This CSAM Prevention initiative by Apple is a 180 degress change of their general message around privacy. Imagine investing hundreds of millions of dollars in pro-privacy programs, privacy features, privacy marketing, etc... just to pull this reverse card. Of course this is going to spark concern within their own ranks. It's like working for a food company that claims to use organic, non-processed, fair-trade ingredi…

To be honest you lost the privacy battle when you bought apple hardware. Can't run Linux, can't run windows, you're stuck with zero competition in the OS space.
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