Amazon, Apple and Google Cut Off Parler • Hacker News Board

Re: Amazon, Apple and Google Cut Off Parler

#821

Post by sh1989 » Sun, Jan 10, 2021, 8:56 AM UTC

jturpin wrote: post #802

ianbutler wrote: post #758

I'm just going to come out and say something that I've had a hard self reflective time coming to the conclusion of. I don't believe in free speech without limits. I have strongly felt that the actions taken by these companies is morally and ethically the right thing to do, for any business and that is inconsistent with believing in true free speech. My line for free speech seems to lie in speech that incites violence…

I have not yet concluded whether I believe in free speech without limits, but I can at least say with confidence the following: - Freedom of speech is of extremely high importance for any free society and should not be taken for granted - Removing it in any capacity should be done with extreme care and free of any bias one way or another, with a lot of thought put into any future consequences - Speech without a platf…

Nobody has an obligation to facilitate your free speech.

Re: Amazon, Apple and Google Cut Off Parler

#822

Post by pldr2244 » Sun, Jan 10, 2021, 8:57 AM UTC

AHappyCamper wrote: post #813

This is a terrible idea. It says that "you don't need to break the law to be punished". This give the big tech companies quasi judicial powers where the grounds for punishments are arbitrary and subjective. Only the courts should be able to decide this type of thing, and I hope Parler sues Apple, Google, and especially Amazon for billions of dollars. What if tomorrow they decide to ban and de-platform an app with 5 m…

What is tomorrow I decide to build a new social app that becomes a blockbuster - and then a minority group that hates the caste I come from, wants to promote their anti-my-caste views there?

Am I going to be obligated to allow them to do so?

Or is it my private property right to say that I am not compelled to publish your hateful perspectives or views, thank you very much?

Re: Amazon, Apple and Google Cut Off Parler

#823

Post by dkdk8283 » Sun, Jan 10, 2021, 8:58 AM UTC

ianbutler wrote: post #758

I'm just going to come out and say something that I've had a hard self reflective time coming to the conclusion of. I don't believe in free speech without limits. I have strongly felt that the actions taken by these companies is morally and ethically the right thing to do, for any business and that is inconsistent with believing in true free speech. My line for free speech seems to lie in speech that incites violence…

Really disappointed to read this. Absolute free speech has been an American staple for many many years. I can only hope you’re in the minority with your beliefs.

Re: Amazon, Apple and Google Cut Off Parler

#824

Post by detaro » Sun, Jan 10, 2021, 8:58 AM UTC

AHappyCamper wrote: post #813

This is a terrible idea. It says that "you don't need to break the law to be punished". This give the big tech companies quasi judicial powers where the grounds for punishments are arbitrary and subjective. Only the courts should be able to decide this type of thing, and I hope Parler sues Apple, Google, and especially Amazon for billions of dollars. What if tomorrow they decide to ban and de-platform an app with 5 m…

How is "companies stop doing business with other companies they don't think it's in their interest doing business with" a new thing that now the door is being opened for? It's happening all the time, and the right to do so is reserved in pretty much any terms of service document ever. It's truly weird how some seem to now see this as some new development one suddenly has to worry about.

Re: Amazon, Apple and Google Cut Off Parler

#825

Post by nindalf » Sun, Jan 10, 2021, 8:58 AM UTC

ianbutler wrote: post #758

I'm just going to come out and say something that I've had a hard self reflective time coming to the conclusion of. I don't believe in free speech without limits. I have strongly felt that the actions taken by these companies is morally and ethically the right thing to do, for any business and that is inconsistent with believing in true free speech. My line for free speech seems to lie in speech that incites violence…

Our world is just fundamentally different from the one where absolute freedom of speech could be guaranteed.

Look at Ted Kaczynski, a terrorist with some very strange ideas. Although he had freedom of speech, he had no means to get his ideas out in front of more people. He had to resort to extreme measures, like a bombing campaign to blackmail newspapers into printing his manifesto.

If he was active today, he’d just post it on YouTube and gather millions of views. If YouTube gets squeamish about the violence, move to Parler.

It was easy to guarantee freedom of speech to everyone when people like Ted no means of actually broadcasting their ideas without being gatekeeped by newspaper editors.

Our world is different now. It saddens me to say this but maybe our principles have to adapt too.

Re: Amazon, Apple and Google Cut Off Parler

#826

Post by esoterica » Sun, Jan 10, 2021, 9:01 AM UTC

justinzollars wrote: post #377

The United States is done. The tools that this community is building to enable political censorship will surely come back to you. You can call this Democracy. But this feels like Authoritarianism. I'm so disappointed in Silicon Valley and those in the Hacker News Community that are stamping out free expression. Shame on you.

In an actual authoritarian country Jack Dorsey would have been thrown into a gulag or re-education camp for banning Trump. The fact that private citizens can openly defy their leaders is the exact opposite of authoritarianism.

Re: Amazon, Apple and Google Cut Off Parler

#827

Post by systemvoltage » Sun, Jan 10, 2021, 9:03 AM UTC

jturpin wrote: post #802

ianbutler wrote: post #758

I'm just going to come out and say something that I've had a hard self reflective time coming to the conclusion of. I don't believe in free speech without limits. I have strongly felt that the actions taken by these companies is morally and ethically the right thing to do, for any business and that is inconsistent with believing in true free speech. My line for free speech seems to lie in speech that incites violence…

I have not yet concluded whether I believe in free speech without limits, but I can at least say with confidence the following: - Freedom of speech is of extremely high importance for any free society and should not be taken for granted - Removing it in any capacity should be done with extreme care and free of any bias one way or another, with a lot of thought put into any future consequences - Speech without a platf…

“Just because private company is allowed to do something, doesn’t mean they should” - so then put that up for public debate. I think we did, Section 230 in the context of posting digital content.

It boggles mind that we are trying to keep a high ground on free speech while the rug is being yanked away from our bottoms.

+ Free Speech. Not when you have millions deluded, angry, violent and ready to use any means to incite violence, take down gov, threaten governors and are trigger happy to exercise 2nd amendment rights. I’m terrified of these people.

I get it. Free speech is important, especially when you disagree with someone. This is how society progresses. You can have the free speech still, just make sure you don’t rally up people to take up arms on bogus claims. They’ve had their free speech chances to contest in court, have peaceful debates and be civilized.

r/conservative, as much as you disagree with them, is still ok and fine. They’re respectful for the most part.

Re: Amazon, Apple and Google Cut Off Parler

#828

Post by WhoCaresLies » Sun, Jan 10, 2021, 9:03 AM UTC

and they want to make you believe that Signal is the answser, why wouldn't they ban Signal too, people use it to sell drugs

Re: Amazon, Apple and Google Cut Off Parler

#829

Post by NigroqueSim » Sun, Jan 10, 2021, 9:05 AM UTC

croes wrote: post #763

ianbutler wrote: post #758

I'm just going to come out and say something that I've had a hard self reflective time coming to the conclusion of. I don't believe in free speech without limits. I have strongly felt that the actions taken by these companies is morally and ethically the right thing to do, for any business and that is inconsistent with believing in true free speech. My line for free speech seems to lie in speech that incites violence…

The problem here is that private companies are doing something that only democratically legitimized state authorities should be doing, deciding what is allowed or not allowed. Otherwise we are always dependent on the good will of the companies without democratic control.

What?

They're just deciding they don't want to host their content on their servers. Which makes sense because some of their content is illegal. Amazon wouldn't host a message board for pedos eithers.

Re: Amazon, Apple and Google Cut Off Parler

#830

Post by 0xB31B1B » Sun, Jan 10, 2021, 9:06 AM UTC

bigshell wrote: post #811

I'm not particularly fond of this. It's censorship. Parler wasn't doing anything illegal and Amazon had no legal reason to kick them off. I worry for the future. While I don't think the loss of parler is massive this is getting the censorship ball rolling.

Parker was being used to promote and organize 2 more riots on the 19th and 20th in the exact same manner it was used to promote and organize the Jan 6 riot that ended in 5 deaths. Also, sedition, what was being planned and organized on parler, is a federal crime, it’s in the criminal code.