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WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using app

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Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using app

#821

Post by pharke »

hliyan wrote: post #325
frereubu wrote: post #22

I'd love to give up WhatsApp, but network effects are key here. I tried moving my extended family off WhatsApp onto Signal a couple of years ago and it failed miserably because the app wasn't nearly as easy to use, and they had all their friends on Whatsapp. Has anyone here had any success moving a large group of people onto something like Signal or Telegram? If so, do you have any tips?

I'm wondering if someone can develop a product that addresses the networking effect problem. I.e. a service that allows groups to move their member lists seamlessly between networks and to be able to also see at a glance, which networks (e.g. WhatsApp, Signal, FB Messenger, Slack) the members are on. Perhaps a network of network memberships?

Solid https://inrupt.com/solid/ ActivityPub https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ActivityPub See Fediverse for more examples https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fediverse

Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using app

#822

Post by fart32 »

Shacklz wrote: post #797
fart32 wrote: post #784

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't like the idea of government having full control of these services. I believe that we need fully decentralized system, much like the e-mail, but realtime and E2EE. Sadly, it seems to me that we're taking the opposite direction. Just few widely used messengers, all of them are centralized, some of them have E2EE, but who knows for how long - EU commission seems to like the idea of breaking in. No matter what th…

In essence I agree with you, but let's not forget that in most countries, the government has already complete (albeit strongly regulated) control and access to postal services and everything that is sent through them, and I think most citizens (me included) are okay with that as well. Furthermore; I'd much rather have the government spying in my stuff than Facebook selling my data to the highest bidder; at least if t…

> and everything that is sent through them

Are you seriously comparing letters and private IM conversations? I don't know about you, but I received/sent maybe 5 letters in last 10 years, none of which were from/to another private entity.

> I'd much rather have the government spying

I consider this very short sighted and dangerours, but that's your choice.

> at least if that were my only two choices

Those are not your only two choices, that's kinda my point. We actually don't have to choose between a greedy company or a state. The only decision people need to make is centralized or decentralized system.

Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using app

#823

Post by CincinnatiMan »

SamuelAdams wrote: post #794
toprea wrote: post #771

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just thinking out loud here, as I was considering something like this. I can also not give up the WhatsApp account due to the social pressure. What if I would use a second phone, a cheap one, used only for the whatsapp (and some other essential but privacy invasive apps). I would not have that second phone always with me, but it would provide me access to the social network I need without feeling tracked or providing…

Trouble is you are privileged enough to be able to afford two phones. For many families, even a $300 device is a significant expense. So if your approach was the only approach, only the rich would have privacy.

Why the use of the word “privilege”? We don’t know what balance of OP’s wealth is earned vs unearned (privilege).

Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using app

#824

Post by beaconstudios »

dtech wrote: post #800
teekert wrote: post #781

Earlier quoted context omitted.

WA is not particularly good, it's just that I don't know anyone who doesn't use it (in the Netherlands), even when you want to contact helpdesks it is sometimes the preferred way. I mean, we have this in many streets: [0] Without kids I could see myself getting away with not using WA, but with kids you are really setting yourself up for a very hard time (and prepare to be judged by other (annoyed) parents and your ki…

It has completely replace texting in NL and some parts of Europe too, and I mean that literally.

yep, here in the UK everyone I know uses whatsapp. Some people have telegram as well, but WA is the baseline. The only SMS texts I get are marketing and automatic notifications.

Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using app

#825

Post by __lazybyte »

bigbizisverywyz wrote: post #750
tdubhro1 wrote: post #692

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm also in the UK and I deleted WhatsApp 2 years ago when it became clear that Facebook intended to move in the direction of fuller integration (I deleted my Facebook account after 1 month of usage 10 years ago). However, I had to reinstall WhatsApp because all of my kid's sports activities and school updates are organised through WhatsApp groups and it is impossible to participate without WhatsApp. Much as I believ…

the issue is that people would probably not want to pay for an app like WhatsApp, and so the 'free' alternative takes hold, and whoever controls that gets the cost of running the infrastructure in advertisement fees. If some company could set themselves up as a utility, and the mobile network operators were to pay that company to run the messaging app + infra, then it could be made to operate like a utility and nobod…

I could remember initially paying for a Whatsapp subscription a couple of years ago, I was happy to do so as I believed they were providing an essential service.

I think that model could've worked.

Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using app

#826

Post by Funes- »

This would be the perfect time for the team behind Signal to make registration through username available, for those who don't want to give their phone number away but would otherwise make the switch. Think about it: competitor gets a closer grip on its users' privacy, while we fortify it instead.

One can dream, right?

Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using app

#827

Post by 542354234235 »

lrvick wrote: post #631
jmnicolas wrote: post #551

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I suggest something that lets you use any client/platform you want I lost about half of my contacts when migrating to Signal, do you really think I can make them install some random app that may or may not work? They already complain that Signal isn't as polished as Whatsapp.

Those that won't respect your ethics are not your friends. I lost many of my contacts moving to Matrix but earned a lot of new high value ones that share my worldview to continue building a decentralized censorship resistant internet.

> Those that won't respect your ethics are not your friends.

This is kind of an unreasonable, one sided, stance. You exact everyone to simply follow you and your preferences with no regard for their preferences. Maybe you not respecting them and their worldview makes you the bad friend, not the other way around.

> I lost many of my contacts moving to Matrix but earned a lot of new high value ones that share my worldview

I don’t know if isolating yourself from anyone that doesn’t’ think and act the exact same way is a good thing.

Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using app

#828

Post by dusted »

kar1181 wrote: post #677

It's harder for US folks to understand just how much of a monopoly WhatsApp has in Europe and the UK. Pretty much all of our school and local community communication happens via WhatsApp. I'd change to Signal or Telegram in a heartbeat, but the inertia is so great it's not possible. It pains me to say, but we're getting to the point where companies like Twitter, Facebook and Google need to be treated like utilities o…

I disagree, they're NOT public utilities, they're private companies that people chose to use (why is beyond me).

What could be considered instead, is building public utilities as a community.

Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using app

#830

Post by 0xbadcafebee »

aftbit wrote: post #381
0xbadcafebee wrote: post #332

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Other people who run on donations: Public Radio, The Red Cross, all government services, all religions. It's fine to be skeptical of how they use their donations, but don't be skeptical just because that's their funding model.

Taxes to pay for government services are more like protection money than donations IMHO. If I were to stop paying, some angry people with guns would eventually come to my door to take me away.

The protection you get isn't a racket, it's a system that enables you and others to live in a society. If you don't want to live in a society, best of luck to you.
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