The majority of 18- to 29-year-olds in the US are now living with their parents • Hacker News Board

Re: The majority of 18- to 29-year-olds in the US are now living with their parents

#821

Post by dragonsngoblins » Thu, Sep 17, 2020, 12:35 AM UTC

novok wrote: post #778

Havoc wrote: post #775

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yup. London. In the land of limp pay cheques (compared to US). Financial sector means being in a financial hub though so not much choice. I'll probably end up moving further out and accepting a long commute eventually.

Why not move to SF or NYC if your in tech or finance?

Not who you asked but because people have lives built where they are living and they don't necessarily want to move to an entirely different continent away from their favourite people and places even if they could be making more money?

Like if you want to do that power to you, but this seems like such an insane question to just ask a stranger on the internet given that there are very obvious reasons why a person might not want to do that

Re: The majority of 18- to 29-year-olds in the US are now living with their parents

#822

Post by refurb » Thu, Sep 17, 2020, 12:36 AM UTC

Havoc wrote: post #775

c-rhodes wrote: post #698

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then you must be living in a really expensive city.

Yup. London. In the land of limp pay cheques (compared to US). Financial sector means being in a financial hub though so not much choice. I'll probably end up moving further out and accepting a long commute eventually.

Why are you shocked you can't afford a house if you live in one of the most expensive cities in the world.

My parents grew up in the "golden years" of the 60's and they couldn't afford it either. That's why they moved to a small town with cheap housing.

Re: The majority of 18- to 29-year-olds in the US are now living with their parents

#823

Post by ChrisLomont » Thu, Sep 17, 2020, 12:38 AM UTC

egh wrote: post #610

Aunche wrote: post #540

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It looks like this is counting the average rather than median, so it's going to be skewed by the top earners. Here is per capita income during the same time period using 2019 dollars: 2019 39,156 2018 36,734 2017 36,553 2017 35,970 2016 35,375 2015 34,157 2014 32,619 2013 33,008 2013 31,691 2012 31,549 2011 31,389 2010 31,208 2009 31,690 2008 32,096 2007 33,131 2006 33,496 2005 32,855 2004 32,368 2003 32,433 2002 32,…

Good point. The data I reported is for "shelter" only, excluding utilities, furniture, etc., so I'm not sure how that looks on the income curve. You're also reporting average income, not median. Median income is much stabler, having climbed about $6000 since 1990. My main point is, people are spending more on housing. It's not a mirage. It is highly concentrated where there are jobs, but of course people move to wher…

>My main point is, people are spending more on housing. It's not a mirage.

House sizes have grown a lot too. When you factor that in, you get to what the OP stated: per square foot, housing prices have been remarkably constant (and for much longer than his 1990 to 2020 window).

When you factor in that houses are now vastly more energy efficient, safe, with niceties like central air, then modern home buyers are likely getting the best deals in history.

Re: The majority of 18- to 29-year-olds in the US are now living with their parents

#824

Post by toomuchtodo » Thu, Sep 17, 2020, 12:38 AM UTC

hosh wrote: post #800

tuna-piano wrote: post #632

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While it's true this seems like a strong US thing, I haven't heard many happy long-term stories of folks living intergenerationally. In my experience (talking to people from a variety of countries), most couples in their 20s/30s want their own place (even in the countries where it's not common). It seems it can even lead to happier intergenerational relationships when the roomate-type fights don't need to happen. It…

Some thoughts about that: 1. In the US, zoning laws discourage building things like the "mother in-law suite". These zoning laws were originally created as a way to get around federal laws prohibiting discrimination of race and sex by making it more difficult for people who can't afford housing to live within a certain neighborhood. Even if US residents wanted to add housing for some semblance of independence, zoning…

Exceptional comment.

Re: The majority of 18- to 29-year-olds in the US are now living with their parents

#825

Post by csomar » Thu, Sep 17, 2020, 12:40 AM UTC

leetcrew wrote: post #389

TuringNYC wrote: post #369

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> Actually the median 401k balance at retirement is only around 60k, so that alone would quadruple their retirement savings. You are comparing apples and oranges. You are comparing today's values at retirement to future values at retirement. It is almost certain that $200k 40yrs from now will not be worth $200k in today's dollars. Inflation accrued over 40yrs -- however low and however faked -- is absolutely going t…

I got the $200k figure assuming a 6% rate of return, which is basically the inflation-adjusted rate of return for the S&P 500. both the $200k and $60k are 2020 dollars.

Given today's interest rates, a 6% inflation adjusted return rate is going to be impossible. More like 1% if you are lucky.

Re: The majority of 18- to 29-year-olds in the US are now living with their parents

#826

Post by ChrisLomont » Thu, Sep 17, 2020, 12:40 AM UTC

x87678r wrote: post #598

egh wrote: post #380

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure what you're arguing here. The simple fact is the amount people pay for housing is up since the 1990s. You can find this data on the BLS web site: https://www.bls.gov/cex/csxmulti.htm Here is the data adjusted for constant 2020 dollars: 1992 $9,799.06 1993 $9,543.99 1994 $9,760.55 1995 $9,924.05 1996 $9,825.29 1997 $10,106.90 1998 $10,473.38 1999 $10,712.59 2000 $10,506.40 2001 $11,055.55 2002 $11,121.33…

Interesting, I've never seen that stat before. one problem is that inflation is a lot lower than before. If you borrowed a house in the 70s/80s you'd pay less each month but after 10 years that payment would be negligible, where now it still takes a big chunk out of your pay.

But in the 70s/80s mortgage rates were ~15%, compared to ~ 3% today. So you still spent a significant amount of money on a mortgage.

Re: The majority of 18- to 29-year-olds in the US are now living with their parents

#827

Post by kilbuz » Thu, Sep 17, 2020, 12:41 AM UTC

charlesu wrote: post #704

tstewart161 wrote: post #660

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You need to keep looking then. Plenty of cities have great job opportunities while still having inexpensive and great houses

Can you name some? I would gladly leave my HoL city for a cheaper one with great job opportunities in technology (not necessarily at a tech company) and cheap housing. The only city that seems to have all those things is Minneapolis. Even Atlanta is fairly expensive at this point.

Twin Cities is the answer, as you already know.

Re: The majority of 18- to 29-year-olds in the US are now living with their parents

#828

Post by 01100011 » Thu, Sep 17, 2020, 12:44 AM UTC

babelfish wrote: post #393

dcolkitt wrote: post #246

> Housing is more expensive for them than prior generations I harp on this constantly. But housing is not more expensive in the majority of American metros. Adjusted for inflation the median cost per square foot of new housing is almost exactly the same as it was in 1990. (This doesn't even take into account that mortgage rates are drastically lower since then.) We get skewed on this for two reasons. One is because h…

> Two is that we're highly skewed to a handful of elite metros, whose housing markets are not representative of the country as a whole Right, but what matters is the housing price where people are. It doesn't matter what the housing market looks like in South Dakota if I don't want to live there. While houses in South Dakota may be 1/10 the price of houses in NYC (likely cheaper, honestly), they also have 1/10 the po…

> what matters is the housing price where people are

What matters is where HN commenters are, because they are controlling this discussion. Let's not pretend that upvotes here are representative of the wider population, or that the average populations' opinions are well represented here. No, you did not imply that, I'm not attacking you or anything, but I figured it should be said lest we delude ourselves.

> I don't want to live there

Isn't it great that the increasing wealth in society gives us the idea that we can pick and choose anywhere in the country to live and then expect to buy a house there? This was not exactly the case for my (grand)parents. My family came from Buffalo, moved to Phoenix, and settled in the Seattle area(long before there were Amazon jobs, when the PNW was a refuge for weirdos). Imagine how silly it would be if the majority of the US population thought they were entitled to a house in a "tier 1" city.

Re: The majority of 18- to 29-year-olds in the US are now living with their parents

#829

Post by asiachick » Thu, Sep 17, 2020, 12:47 AM UTC

tuna-piano wrote: post #632

kelnos wrote: post #553

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's also useful to note that the "nuclear family" is a very Western thing, and the US takes it to an extreme. In other parts of the world it's abnormal for adults in their 20s to be living anywhere but with their parents, often even with a fiance or new spouse in the mix. The idea that having a multi-generational household means that the younger members haven't "grown up" and need to "learn to live on their own" is…

While it's true this seems like a strong US thing, I haven't heard many happy long-term stories of folks living intergenerationally. In my experience (talking to people from a variety of countries), most couples in their 20s/30s want their own place (even in the countries where it's not common). It seems it can even lead to happier intergenerational relationships when the roomate-type fights don't need to happen. It…

I think your random sampling of people is just unlucky. It's not my experience the people living intergenerationally are unhappy. It's normal here in Asia. I know of no one complaining. It's very common to see 50s mom and 20s daughters spending days together as friends. Browse a dating site and it's not uncommon to see people even in their 40s living with parents. It's also not uncommon for people to move out for collage and move back in 4 to 10 years later with zero stigma

I have feeling you could make an argument that getting your own place is either an indirect or possible direct consequence of marketing. Lots of companies stand to make more money if they promote you moving out on your own. Ikea has at least one famous ad telling you to move out of your parent's house

https://www.google.com/search?q=time+to+leave+home+ikea

Re: The majority of 18- to 29-year-olds in the US are now living with their parents

#830

Post by throwaway0a5e » Thu, Sep 17, 2020, 12:52 AM UTC

jlokier wrote: post #807

iso1631 wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But that's no different to 2003 (you could have a guarantor - typically a parent - who would be on the hook for your rent if you didn't pay it) Before I started looking I was under the impression things were harder now then they were in 2003, but it seems not, at least in this one case (tiny studio/bedsits in a dodgy part of west london) -- unless asking prices on rent are massively depressed due to covid. In 2006/7…

Things seem to have become more difficult to obtain in some cases. Back in 2003, nobody asked me for proof of income for renting. Just basic credit checks (which don't directly know about income or bank balances). Proof of income is more recent. (And difficult if you're self-employed with highly irregular income, I found.) If using a guarantor, a guarantor has to pass similar checks. Guarantor works a lot better for…

>Things seem to have become more difficult to obtain in some cases. Back in 2003, nobody asked me for proof of income for renting. Just basic credit checks (which don't directly know about income or bank balances). Proof of income is more recent.

Because they can ask those things more quickly and easily now. There's a bunch of jerks in California who are hellbent on connecting every DB in the world to every other DB that we can thank for this.