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New 13-inch MacBook Pro

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Re: New 13-inch MacBook Pro

#821

Post by chipotle_coyote »

noisem4ker wrote: post #669
stuff4ben wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Dont make me jump through hoops to find computery stuff. I'm curious what "computery" stuff you're looking for? If you're trying to modify stuff a "normal user" wouldn't touch, you'd be better off on the command line. Finder isn't meant for people who want to muck around with the system because everyday normal users shouldn't be messing with system files. Personally I hardly ever use Finder. Cmd+Space to launch app…

I don't get why power users shouldn't be afforded the power of graphical file management. The command line is not an adequate substitute for quickly navigating and managing the filesystem to me.

Maybe I'm not a "power user," but I'm using the Finder for graphical file management roughly every day and it's just not a super big issue for me.

These "Macs aren't for power users" threads always kind of fascinate me, because it's so clear how differently people define "power user," and at times it feels like a lot of people define it as "this system has defaults that I don't like" or, even more often around here, "If I ever feel like I have to touch my mouse the system is crap." Whereas for me, I want a launcher/workflow runner like Alfred, which very often is my "command line" for a lot of functionality. I can assign a keyboard shortcut to anything in any menu in any application at the system level. I can wrap Unix scripts in Automator actions and put them in the Service context menu, so I can highlight text in any application and run it through a filter with a single click. I drag the proxy document icon in the title bar of windows to perform actions on that file all the time. To me, these are totally "power user" things, while I've never once thought "man, if only I had a mouse-free tiling 'window' manager that just split the screen in multiple sections with no overlapping windows I would be so much more productive."

Also, I'm typing this on a 2020 Macbook Air and it has a terrific keyboard. With the release of this 13" MacBook Pro, AFAIK this eliminates the butterfly keyswitch from their lineup.

Re: New 13-inch MacBook Pro

#822

Post by pfranz »

dkonofalski wrote: post #641
MaintenanceMode wrote: post #632

Bringing back the escape key is such a admission of their original screw up. I'm glad they admitted it and reversed the design decision. But I'm still on a 2012 15" MacBook that's running strong. I normally would have updated but using my work 15" has been horrific between the dongles, the keyboard randomly dropping keys (last week "G" would not work, now it's back. The most infuriating thing about the touch bar, out…

I'm still surprised that so many people are stuck on the Escape key but it's probably no surprise that the ones that are stuck are all developers using vi or emacs. I love the Touch Bar and had no problem adjusting/remapping and find the utility of the Touch Bar for video and audio editing to be invaluable now. I wasn't sold on it before but, over the last year or so, I'll be really disappointed if they remove it. Ad…

I do use vi, but I think it's more important that ESC is used to non-destructively dismiss a dialog. Like exiting fullscreen mode, backing out, or dismissing a warning--but not exiting without saving.

Re: New 13-inch MacBook Pro

#823

Post by rzwitserloot »

MaintenanceMode wrote: post #632

Bringing back the escape key is such a admission of their original screw up. I'm glad they admitted it and reversed the design decision. But I'm still on a 2012 15" MacBook that's running strong. I normally would have updated but using my work 15" has been horrific between the dongles, the keyboard randomly dropping keys (last week "G" would not work, now it's back. The most infuriating thing about the touch bar, out…

Built into MacOS itself is the ability to do something many vi and emacs users do regardless of the presence of a touchbar:

Remap caps lock (a useless key anyway) to escape.

This is in System Preferences > Keyboard > Modifier Keys > pick 'Escape' from the dropdown next to 'Caps lock key'.

If you wanna get fancy you can rewire right-ctrl or whatnot to esc too if you like that.

There are also 3rd party utilities like [Karabiner](https://karabiner-elements.pqrs.org/) which is undoubtedly the front runner for mac remappers (And public domain to boot). It's very scriptable; for example, if you want, you can set it up such that a longer press on caps lock really is caps lock (making use of the led for visual feedback that you engaged caps lock), but a short tap is escape. This does mean the ESC cannot register until you release.

If only there was some software to make this keyboard not sound like a slap fight between 2 otters...

Re: New 13-inch MacBook Pro

#824

Post by dkonofalski »

TheRealPomax wrote: post #722
dkonofalski wrote: post #641

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm still surprised that so many people are stuck on the Escape key but it's probably no surprise that the ones that are stuck are all developers using vi or emacs. I love the Touch Bar and had no problem adjusting/remapping and find the utility of the Touch Bar for video and audio editing to be invaluable now. I wasn't sold on it before but, over the last year or so, I'll be really disappointed if they remove it. Ad…

Or, you know, literally any app where `esc` is the "cancel and exit this dialog" key. Which is every Adobe application, all DAWs, etc. etc.

I don't see how that's a negative. The Touch Bar still has an ESC segment that works exactly the same as the button and literally no one in any of the companies that I've worked with that's not a developer has ever had an issue with it while simultaneously finding the Touch Bar far more useful than unlabelled function keys.

Re: New 13-inch MacBook Pro

#825

Post by pfranz »

gowld wrote: post #716
aweb wrote: post #680

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was of the same opinion as you until I discovered Pock: it's a small tool that puts the dock (and optional controls) in the touchbar. This means I can get more screen real estate while keeping my dock accessible. Frankly I'm now pretty much onboard with the touchbar, except for the probably huge battery consumption.

Auto-Hide dock is easier to reach than touchbar.

I realize a lot of people are big fans of hiding their dock. I find it annoying because there are too many moves instead of darting your eyes. When walking up to a random computer it's worse because I often find those people have moved the dock and I have to check each corner one at a time.

Re: New 13-inch MacBook Pro

#826

Post by dkonofalski »

Hippocrates wrote: post #667
dkonofalski wrote: post #641

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm still surprised that so many people are stuck on the Escape key but it's probably no surprise that the ones that are stuck are all developers using vi or emacs. I love the Touch Bar and had no problem adjusting/remapping and find the utility of the Touch Bar for video and audio editing to be invaluable now. I wasn't sold on it before but, over the last year or so, I'll be really disappointed if they remove it. Ad…

I personally use Vi and so do others I hear from (as in HN) but other than that it would probably never come up as an issue. For the record, you can remap Caps lock to Esc which is as good, if not better than escape. I use this on my iPad and other keyboards as well (even with the esc key)

I agree but, as I said initially, I only see this in the developer crowd. I just don't hear that type of criticism from any other segment in any of the companies I work with.

Re: New 13-inch MacBook Pro

#827

Post by RandomBacon »

no_dinner wrote: post #519
mr_custard wrote: post #444

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks. I'm am aware of this. I research this all the time, and regularly come away disappointed. I don't know if I verbalised clearly enough, but I have actively wanted good options for years, and I'm always open to whatever alternatives are current at the time of purchase. Seriously, I'm in the market for a new laptop and there are still too many concerns relating to support for these devices... not just Dell but u…

I'm using the Thinkpad X1 Carbon 7th generation and I feel like with the latest Ubuntu 20.04 LTS it's finally at the level of usability I want in a Linux laptop. Everything works out of the box, including the speakers, camera, microphone, wifi & bluetooth, and fingerprint reader. I can even use my fingerprint for sudo! (I did have to run one or two commands to get that working though). The trackpad is also great, if…

>fingerprint for sudo

That's awesome! I just bought the new XPS 13 (9300) with 32gb of ram. Unboxing it today, I've heard it works flawlessly with Ubuntu 20.04 except the fingerprint reader, and Dell says that will be possible later this year.

Re: New 13-inch MacBook Pro

#828

Post by RandomBacon »

boromi wrote: post #380
lostmsu wrote: post #306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What kind of driver issues did you get?

I tried to return the POS but Dell wont take it back since I was a few days past their 30 day return policy. Let's not forget I had to deal with a minor fallout due to the pandemic, but their "customer service" department doesn't care about personal issues and difficulties customers have had during the last month and only profit and sales. I'm never buying Dell

Did you purchase it with a credit card that offers longer return periods on your purchases?

Re: New 13-inch MacBook Pro

#830

Post by dividedbyzero »

pier25 wrote: post #799
dividedbyzero wrote: post #767

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess the actual, underlying problem is, the Touchbar is bad UX for a bunch of software engineers, but pretty great for most everyone else. Think about it – you lose some keys you never really had a use for anyway except as media keys, and you get almost analogue-ish volume and brightness controls, apps can give you context-dependent options that are really discoverable (which F-keys totally aren't) and can adapt t…

> but pretty great for most everyone else Honestly I think most people would rather save $200-300 than have the touchbar. If you look at the average mac user, not pros but regular office people, they use stuff like Launchpad and rarely use keyboard shortcuts. You'd be surprised how many macOS users don't even use Spotlight for instance.

Get the Air then. More than plenty horsepower for regular office work, even thinner and lighter and quite a bit cheaper and prettier (do they still have the gold one? I wish they'd offer that on the Pros...) If someone buys a Pro for some Excel and web browsing, I'd imagine those $200-300 didn't break the bank. People sometimes get one even though the Air would have been fine precisely because of the Touchbar (says my little bit of anecdata.) Besides, I guess the Touchbar would be especially neat exactly for those people who never use Spotlight, because it's extremely discoverable. With Spotlight, you either need to know it's there, or discover it on your own (which is going to be hard); it's similar with keyboard shortcuts. Tap "Search" on the Touchbar? Way easier. You don't need to be good with computers to find out how to do that.
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