Terminating Service for 8Chan • Hacker News Board

Re: Terminating Service for 8Chan

#821

Post by whiteopinions » Mon, Aug 05, 2019, 1:17 PM UTC

gspetr wrote: post #727

king_magic wrote: post #716

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those always sounded like noble, wise words. And maybe they once were. But in age when white supremacy/fascism/nazism/strongman-leader-ism is rising again, I’m no longer sure I agree with them.

Benjamin Franklin once said: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

...this was said in reference to being able to use the powers of legislature to serve the greater good despite private interests.

It means the exact opposite of what you think it means.

Re: Terminating Service for 8Chan

#822

Post by INTPenis » Mon, Aug 05, 2019, 1:17 PM UTC

Same old story. Silence them instead of listening to them, speaking to them, learning from them.

You can learn from a baby. Silencing people leads nowhere.

Re: Terminating Service for 8Chan

#823

Post by Ajedi32 » Mon, Aug 05, 2019, 1:18 PM UTC

creyes wrote: post #819

Ajedi32 wrote: post #818

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Flawed comparison. Nothing 8Chan did or possibly could do would result in service disruption to other Cloudflare customers.

Unless any of the people who were killed in El Paso were Cloudflare customers

Sure, but you could say exactly the same thing about a water or electrical utility.

Re: Terminating Service for 8Chan

#824

Post by Biganon » Mon, Aug 05, 2019, 1:23 PM UTC

Sacho wrote: post #724

arrrg wrote: post #571

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Pedophiles don't make the choice to be pedophiles - would you allow their pedophilia activism? What's the difference?

Yeah people are conflating two things.

If you're not responsible for your situation, you should not be punished for it. That doesn't mean a court cannot sentence you to medical measures, I'm only talking about punishment. At least that's how it works in my country, and it's a good system IMO. Therefore, a pedophile, at least one who only fantasizes about children, must never be punished because of that, but helped (and maybe helped medically against his or her will, but that's another debate altogether).

On the other hand, if your situation causes no harm and no danger whatsoever, such as being gay, then nothing should be done against it, and the situation should be tolerated entirely, and not even frowned upon.

These two concepts are sometimes close, but they are different nevertheless.

Re: Terminating Service for 8Chan

#825

Post by yosamino » Mon, Aug 05, 2019, 1:24 PM UTC

Ajedi32 wrote: post #818

yosamino wrote: post #794

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Imagine if real life utilities did this. If because someone used your property for offensive purposes, the water company cut off the water supply, or the electricity company refused to provide electricity, or your phone provider cut off service or what not. That would be ridiculous, yet it's exactly the situation we're in with internet services. No one wants to just be a utility. These are flawed comparisons, becau…

Flawed comparison. Nothing 8Chan did or possibly could do would result in service disruption to other Cloudflare customers.

No, that's exactly the point. If water distribution worked in the way that utility companies just laid the pipes, connected them to those of other utilites, and otherwise did not care about what sort of water anybody pumped into them, water quality would drop pretty fast.

But agreed, I am stretching this example very far now to make "water as a utility" conform to "Internet as a utility" - which maybe goes to show that they are not quite the same and might benefit from not treating them the same.

Re: Terminating Service for 8Chan

#826

Post by pashamur » Mon, Aug 05, 2019, 1:25 PM UTC

michannne wrote: post #770

mort96 wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Taking orders from gay people and hosting services for sites which support far-right terrorism aren't exactly the same though. We can be against suppressing gay people and for suppressing far-right terrorism even if the means by which the suppression happens is similar.

They are. Taking infrastructure away from gay people to buy coffee is exactly the same thing as taking infrastructure away from random people on the internet. The only circumstance in which either of these should be tolerated is when there is a direct threat to US national security (imminent terrorism) or a crime has been committed. Neither of these has happened.

There's very much a threat of terrorism. If 8chan was an ISIS forum with the same content as now I'm sure people would be singing a very different tune.

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2019/08/how-can...

Re: Terminating Service for 8Chan

#827

Post by tim333 » Mon, Aug 05, 2019, 1:26 PM UTC

qrbLPHiKpiux wrote: post #708

CM30 wrote: post #656

I don't like 8chan as a website, but I'm still not a fan of this move. Feels like no one online wants to just provide a 'dumb pipe', and always want to act like a pseudo publisher trying to dictate what's allowed and what isn't. Imagine if real life utilities did this. If because someone used your property for offensive purposes, the water company cut off the water supply, or the electricity company refused to provid…

“I may disagree with what you say but will defend with you your right to say it.” - Voltaire

But Voltaire didn't go on to say "I also think private companies have an obligation to transmit what you say to the wider world even if they think it's bollocks."

Re: Terminating Service for 8Chan

#828

Post by michannne » Mon, Aug 05, 2019, 1:29 PM UTC

pashamur wrote: post #826

michannne wrote: post #770

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are. Taking infrastructure away from gay people to buy coffee is exactly the same thing as taking infrastructure away from random people on the internet. The only circumstance in which either of these should be tolerated is when there is a direct threat to US national security (imminent terrorism) or a crime has been committed. Neither of these has happened.

There's very much a threat of terrorism. If 8chan was an ISIS forum with the same content as now I'm sure people would be singing a very different tune. https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2019/08/how-can...

It's a good thing then, that it isn't an ISIS forum.

Further, your definition of terrorism eludes me. What gives you the impression that 8chan conducts, facilitates and organizes terror?

Re: Terminating Service for 8Chan

#829

Post by _bxg1 » Mon, Aug 05, 2019, 1:35 PM UTC

And what about the websites that Cloudflare's Project Galileo protects against certain governments' Rule of Law? Presumably they aren't shutting that project down, which means they're still making arbitrary judgement calls about which Rules of Law are legitimate and which aren't.

Re: Terminating Service for 8Chan

#830

Post by watwut » Mon, Aug 05, 2019, 1:40 PM UTC

cybersnowflake wrote: post #528

I love how everybody is having a cow over a website where the rhetoric isn't really all that much worse than a 'mainstream' site like twitter. For example in twitter you can find guys who call for children to be fed into wood chippers because they wear Maga hats and hundreds/thousands of people including corporate accounts like Burger King cheering assaulting people. And they almost all receive absolutely no punishme…

This is just not true. Twitter puts way more effort into blocking and controlling what goes on its platform then "we like living on the edge" 8chan. At this point, there was community that kept scores and celebrated shoot outs.

At this point, even original 8chan creator called to close 8chan.