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They Used To Last 50 Years

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Re: They Used To Last 50 Years

#821

Post by jansan »

antod wrote: post #393
PuffinBlue wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry but I'm not drinking the Miele Kool-Aid any longer. Maybe in the past they were great (my MIL has a 20 years old washing machine that's going great) but not the new stuff. Both my washer and dryer failed within 2 months of each other after 6 years. The dryers main board failed and price to repair was nearly £350 just for the part. The washers pump and some kind of water sensor failed simultaneously, leading to…

> Sorry but I'm not drinking the Miele Kool-Aid any longer. My parents installed Miele appliances in a kitchen remodel about 6 years back. The fancy expensive oven must've broken down 5 times in the first year. I think it eventually settled down though.

Miele's reputation is based mainly on their washing machines. When we bought the appliances for our kitchen we did not even consider any Miele products, but for washing machines I would never buy anything else.

Re: They Used To Last 50 Years

#822

Post by TheGrassyKnoll »

nkrisc wrote: post #554
Keverw wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I remember seeing on HN a year or two ago? About Samsung smart fridges calendar app not being updated when Google phased out the API it was using. Also Blu-ray players don't get updates after a long while too I've heard as YouTube and Netflix changes their APIs - the devs of these devices don't keep them up to date. I would prefer a dumb TV, and just buy a replaceable box with the computer part. The only way I could…

I had to go out of my way to find a dumb TV. But when I found it, it was a few hundred cheaper than smart TVs of the same size. I saved money and headache!

Brand ? Link ?? (Thx)

Re: They Used To Last 50 Years

#823

Post by Arizhel »

hx87 wrote: post #774
sixdimensional wrote: post #643

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ironically, I work for a manufacturer who tries to support their product for at least 20-30 years, but obsolescence is an incredible challenge due to use of a lot of commercial of the shelf electronics which themselves go obsolete at a ridiculous pace. What I'm saying is, even if you try to engineer a product to last, if the supply chain supporting you isn't to doing the same, the problem often compounds. In my case,…

What if your company decided to sacrifice features for maintainability and kept the electronics in the product to a minimum? There might be a strong market for something that does only 1-2 things but can be maintained indefinitely with simple materials and tools.

Then you can't offer the features and efficiency that the competitors' models do. Replacing the simple mechanisms of yesteryear with microcontrollers and sensors is how our appliances have become so much more efficient, just like humans have become the dominant species on this planet by having the most complex brain, instead of trying to get by with the mental abilities of an amoeba.

Re: They Used To Last 50 Years

#824

Post by TheGrassyKnoll »

WalterBright wrote: post #306
mrbill wrote: post #174

When we moved into this house 12 years ago, I got the cheapest, simplest, most "mechanical" washer and dryer set that Lowe's offered (I think it's branded GE). Haven't had a single problem other than the light inside the dryer eventually burned out when a housemate left the door open. I know that when one of them eventually fails, it will hopefully be a cheap and simple mechanical fix. I have no desire to own a "majo…

I've had many cars with electric windows. They all eventually failed, usually when it was raining, and the windows could not be raised. Fixing them would cost over $500. My truck now has hand cranked windows, and mechanical door locks. They're no trouble at all, and I'm happy with them.

I've got a 12 year old Dodge and the driver's side electric window only works when it gets hot enough. (and its not the switch). Drives me nuts... A mechanic friend of mine told me that changing out a window motor is a pain in the ass.

Re: They Used To Last 50 Years

#825

Post by Arizhel »

r00fus wrote: post #791
cc439 wrote: post #762

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I do know one company that has a reputation for not doing this. Miele in Europe but then their appliances are double to triple the price of typical companies. I think Miele serves as an excellent example for why the market has moved away from designing products with a 30+ year expected service life. If the average modern appliance lasts for 5-10 years as this article claims (and has proven true time and time again i…

There's another factor to this - the US homeownership has gone down over the years, and will likely go lower. More renters = even less incentive for reliable products, as the cheapest install that works is sufficient to rent.

Not necessarily. The problem here is that many appliances are the property of the landlord, and it's their responsibility to repair or replace them. Landlords who buy cheap junk appliances that need quick replacement are going to see their profits wiped out.

I really don't see how home ownership is a factor here at all. This is just a symptom of modern society where people don't expect things to last and don't penalize mfgrs who sell them short-lived junk, and instead look for generally the cheapest stuff.

Re: They Used To Last 50 Years

#826

Post by TheGrassyKnoll »

mywittyname wrote: post #729
agumonkey wrote: post #435

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cars are still in the old mindset. They're unmodular, un-lego. Kinda like average laptops before 2006 or so. Tons of intricate parts stuck together. Coming from the computer world, especially now that you can plug and swap all kinds of parts, this looks insane. And the carmakers are leveraging this to take a premium on anything if you don't dare to try fixing it yourself.

"Lego" cars used to be really common. Old Hondas were exactly like this, which is why they had such a cult following in the 90s. You could build up a Honda using parts from pretty much any other Honda. This also contributed to their popularity among thieves.

I got 375,000 miles out of 1986 Honda Accord. I think one time I went almost 5 years where the only thing I did was change the oil. (but, I drive like an old lady, slow starts etc.)

Re: They Used To Last 50 Years

#827

Post by WalterBright »

stinos wrote: post #523
WalterBright wrote: post #306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've had many cars with electric windows. They all eventually failed, usually when it was raining, and the windows could not be raised. Fixing them would cost over $500. My truck now has hand cranked windows, and mechanical door locks. They're no trouble at all, and I'm happy with them.

If you think of your car as any other tool you start to realize the electronic stuff might quickly get in the way of it functioning reliably whenever you need it. We have cranked windows, no AC, no other fancy electronics stuff (park assist? really? is that meant to un learn people how to drive?) but electrical door locks. The one thing which ever let us down: the door locks of course.

And when your electric door locks fail, you can't even get into the car, nor can you open the hood to replace the battery.

Re: They Used To Last 50 Years

#828

Post by fnordfnordfnord »

jaclaz wrote: post #749
fnordfnordfnord wrote: post #584

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have to disagree with this premise as it pertains to automobile engines. Automobile engines have improved tremendously in "lifespan" or Time Before OverHaul. In the '70's and '80's it was a challenge to get an engine to last 100,000 miles. They needed frequent oil changes, spark plugs replaced, had other short-life wearable parts (ignition parts), water pumps to replace, fuel pumps to replace, alternators went bad,…

As a corollary, consider how much fuel (particularly diesel) and much more than that oil (lubricating oil) have bettered around those times. AFAICT in "practical" mechanical engineering tribology: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tribology is one of the fields that made the most progresses in the 90's, thanks also to the introduction on the market of totally or partially sinthetic oil, that literally changed the game wh…

Yes, I agree that the oil has a major role as well.

As far as water pumps go, I've noticed that they often have alloy impellers now, and used to have stamped steel ones. I've heard of people rebuilding water pumps themselves (as opposed to buying a remanufactured unit), but never seen that done except in special cases (large stationary engine, rare obsolete engine).

Re: They Used To Last 50 Years

#829

Post by Arizhel »

cc439 wrote: post #772
drzaiusapelord wrote: post #719

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It still doesn't matter. GE is run by its own management and engineers. It doesn't matter that its all owned by one Chinese conglomerate or NBC or whoever. They're not re-badging Shenzhen #1 Super Fast Machine with the GE tag. Corporate ownership is, generally, an abstract that shouldn't matter in most cases. Unless they're purposely cutting lines or just rebadging stuff, then reading reviews is still the solution he…

>Unless they're purposely cutting lines or just rebadging stuff This is exactly what they're doing. Your example, GE, actually sold off it's appliance division to Haier. They had also been relabeling LG appliances for years prior to the sale of the entire division. The article for this thread also made note of the fact that "Kenmore" is nothing but an umbrella label under which includes products from almost every man…

Kenmore is not representative of the appliance industry. Kenmore has been nothing more than a rebadger for probably its entire existence, and certainly more than my lifetime. It's not a secret, and never has been. The advantage to buying Kenmore was that you could buy it at your local Sears, and you could always get parts for it at your local Sears, as that was part of the deal Sears made with the manufacturer. These days, since Sears seems to be swirling the drain, there's no advantage to buying a Kenmore versus getting the same non-rebadged model from the OEM.

Re: They Used To Last 50 Years

#830

Post by hatfieej »

expnsv_hdphns wrote: post #512

When I went to the first semester of engineering school at the University of Wisconsin - Madison, there was a class called Engineering Professional Development 160: Introduction to Engineering. One of the early class sessions was a lecture from a guy at a power tool company, making some kind of jigsaw or handheld cutting tool. He explicitly told us, paraphrasing, "You don't want to make your product too reliable, bec…

I spent years designing electronics and motors for GE, including the washing machines. I never once heard anyone in any department make the slightest mention of designing a product to fail. That was a side effect of something like "design for 20 years" but "prove reliability for 10 years". The purchase price set by the market was just too low to prove reliability longer. I'm not sure if the following was true, but I did hear the discussion of "for every $1 we add to the product cost, it will cost the customer $5". People move every 7-10 years and moving appliances is a pain, so I think that's just where the market landed when accounting for reliability vs price.

I think there's some unfair nostalgia about appliances being built to last years ago. A quick search revealed a 2 speed/3 cycle 1962 washer sold for $185 which is over $1400 today. You can buy that washer for $300 today. Plus it has safety features to prevent ripping your kid's arm off. :)

Sources:

http://www.thepeoplehistory.com/60selectrical.html

http://www.in2013dollars.com/1962-dollars-in-2016?amount=185

https://www.lowes.com/pd/Roper-3-5-cu-ft-High-Efficiency-Top...

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