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Fewer than 3% of cars sold in the U.S. have manual transmissions

latimes.com

821–830 of 893 posts

Re: Fewer than 3% of cars sold in the U.S. have manual transmissions

#821

Because you can't actually buy them. I bought a car a few years ago, the option was base trim with manual or all other trims in automatic. It was very frustrating. If the choice is between automatic windows, dual climate control, heated seats, etc or a manual, you'd be a fool to choose the manual no matter how much you prefer it over an automatic. Then of course, the "sales data" feeds back to the manufacturer and ev…

I recently purchased a Fiesta ST, which (along with the Focus ST) bucks this trend. The Fiesta is a cheap car, but the highest trim package, ST, is exclusively available as a manual and adds 70 HP. The Focus ST is the same, with an even bigger HP bump.

Hopefully somebody else decides to compete with Ford for the budget enthusiast market, and we get a bunch of fun manuals :)

Re: Fewer than 3% of cars sold in the U.S. have manual transmissions

#822
post #403

Just got back from another trip to Europe where I encountered the slightly odd European preference for manuals. I can kind of see why, the car culture is quite different from the States -- where most cars are two or three generations beyond the kind of automatics most Europeans associate with the transmission type. The inverse is that most European diesels are two or three generations beyond what most Americans assoc…

Are you seriously saying a modern full sized automatic sedan is more efficient than a modern compact car? Or are you actually comparing a modern sedan to an old compact? Those turbocharged <1L little hatchbacks would absolutely trounce your big car for efficiency. And for a lot of people, whose primary use of a car is taking themselves to work, it makes an awful lot of sense.

"Those turbocharged Only if you drive them like in the lab tests. If you drive them normally, expect a very big discrepancy between the lab tests and real driving mileage. Much bigger than for normal cars with big engines.

The whole reasoning behind downsizing goes like this:

1. small engines are lighter than big engines, so they offer better mileage in city driving because there is less mass to accelerate

2. small engines have lower internal friction than big engines, and they need less fuel when idling, or near-idling, which you often do in city conditions

3. most of the time, most drivers don't need much power, particularly for city driving or when cruising at a constant speed

This leads to a conclusion that to maximize fuel efficiency, you need a small, low-powered engine for daily use with a strong turbocharger to help get more power in very rare events when you need it (like passing over).

However, there are a few caveats with this line of reasoning, and I guess some (Japanese) car manufacturers already noticed it and refuse to put downsized engines into their cars:

1. A turbocharged engine is much less efficient at full throttle than an NA engine of the same power (couple of reasons for this: lower compression-ratio, higher lambda to cool down a very small engine so it doesn't melt, losses of energy in the compressor / turbocharger).

2. If you downsize too much, normal driving will require to run the engine near the top of its power and make use of turbocharging very often.

3. The longevity of the engine is negatively affected and there are more components that can break. And modern designs that tend to reduce turbo-lag are complex and expensive to repair (dual compressor/turbocharger designs, variable geometry turbochargers).

Re: Fewer than 3% of cars sold in the U.S. have manual transmissions

#823

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> when automatic transmissions are consistently > outperforming humans at fuel efficiency What? So far each data sheet has shown higher fuel consumption for automatic vehicles.

I should probably have qualified my statement with an "over time, in real driving conditions". In a measured test, with a skilled driver, who does the right thing for the entirety of the test, it is most likely that he or she will be more efficient with a manual transmission than with an automatic. However, in real life, for real humans, over a longer period of time, the drivers with modern automatic transmissions wi…

> However, in real life, for real humans, over a longer period of time, the drivers with modern automatic transmissions will be more fuel efficient than drivers with similar cars and manual transmissions, because the automatic transmission is a reliable machine that will do the same thing, every time.

I'm not sure I buy this. I noticed when I switched to automatic from manual I would drive in ways I would never have done with the manual because, well, it was easier than having to care about RPM, target speed, and current gear state: I'm not worried about automatic drivers being bad drivers, I'm worried about them not caring.

Re: Fewer than 3% of cars sold in the U.S. have manual transmissions

#824
post #470

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not only that but staying in gear when going down hills or slowing down will reduce the wear on your breaks by using the inertia of the engine to slow the car instead of break pad friction/heat.

You maintain better control of the vehicle if you leave the clutch engaged and engine brake instead of slowing down with it disengaged and using the actual brakes. It may not seem that way to inexperienced manual drivers, but once you've driven a manual in traffic a few times you learn that engine braking is safer and more precise. Also, on a large, heavy vehicle with a manual transmission, you can get in trouble wit…

Cars are designed so that you stop the car by pressing the brake pedal, so that is generally the better way to do it.

* 4-wheel braking, even if it is a 2wd car.

* ABS/Traction control systems are designed around brakes, not engine braking.

* Regenerative braking (if equipped) uses the brake pedal

* There is a smooth application of braking power from 80mph to 0mph. Engine braking is indexed (I can only choose which gear), and cannot bring the car to a complete stop.

* The limiting factor with brakes is traction, which isn't improved by using engine braking.

* Using the brake pedal is a single action. Engine braking involves at least 3 (clutch in, shift, clutch out).

* Brakes are cheaper to replace than clutch/transmission.

* Engine braking alone does not activate brake lights.

The only exception is when there is a danger that the brakes will overheat: descending a large hill or hauling a heavy load. The default instinct should be the brake pedal alone.

Re: Fewer than 3% of cars sold in the U.S. have manual transmissions

#825
post #731
post #474

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is absolutely untrue. Go look at EPA estimates for the same cars in Auto/Manual. Besides, most manuals are 5 or 6 speed. I was reading about new ZF transmissions and they stated a 14% fuel efficiency gain over a standard 5 speed

What is your point? Lots of automatics are 6-8 speeds now.

My point is automatics have better fuel consumption than manuals. Especially the newer 8 speeds.

Re: Fewer than 3% of cars sold in the U.S. have manual transmissions

#826
post #30

I switched to automatic a year ago and I'm glad I did. Stick shift feels ancient already, and besides it's just annoying once you realize it can be done automatically. I'm from The Netherlands though, so most of my colleagues and friends call me "grandpa" now, because automatic is, as they say, for old people; almost everyone here drives stick shift.

I don't feel it's annoying. If you have a shifter it feels like you're actually driving. People will long for manuals as we move more and more into autopilot. Manual transmission. Double edge razor. Smoker grill. Get off my lawn. It's kind of beautiful.

I use a straight razor, and would love a man tran. But I can't really afford a car and I got this 20-year-old automatic for free so it's what I live with.

Re: Fewer than 3% of cars sold in the U.S. have manual transmissions

#827

Earlier quoted context omitted.

unkeljoe: "braking all the way down a steep grade can cause your brakes to overheat and become temporarily inoperable. " That condition is known as brake fade/fading and occurs mostly with drum brakes and can occur on bicycles, motorbikes and automobiles. Braking heats the brake drums, which then expand. The drum may expand in diameter to the extent that the brake pads no longer contact the drum sufficiently enough t…

I would just like to commend you on your bravery. Towing a trailer with a Beetle in the mountains takes some stones.

I needed to get to the Northeast for a summer job. One of my professors had a Beetle and a locked U-Haul that she wanted moved to Boston. Now that I look back I probably should have asked to see the contents of the trailer!8-))

It was a fun trip with only a minute or so of harrowing possible death-down-the-mountainside. I'd recommend it to anyone!

Re: Fewer than 3% of cars sold in the U.S. have manual transmissions

#828
Well, from my point of view this is the main difference between EEUU and Europe. To understand the difference and the 3% you need to read about volkswagen scandal. Better or worse, probably in few years there will not be more cars with manual transmissions on U.S.

Re: Fewer than 3% of cars sold in the U.S. have manual transmissions

#829

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When you coast with engaged clutch, you will engine brake. Energy doesn't go to the engine for free. Adding the fuel to counter the engine braking is less efficient than letting the engine run idle while coasting due to losses in the power-train. Plus, more efficient cars still have to inject fuel. The electro-hydraulically controlled conventional gearbox of the Lupo 3L disengages the dry clutch while coasting for a…

When you coast with engaged clutch, you will engine brake True Energy doesn't go to the engine for free. Adding the fuel to counter the engine braking is less efficient than letting the engine run idle while coasting due to losses in the power-train It is a bit hard to understand where you're trying to go here but assuming that you state it takes fuel to 'counter the engine braking' you're wrong. Engine braking is ju…

They're talking about the situation where you're coasting and don't want to brake.

Re: Fewer than 3% of cars sold in the U.S. have manual transmissions

#830
post #470

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not only that but staying in gear when going down hills or slowing down will reduce the wear on your breaks by using the inertia of the engine to slow the car instead of break pad friction/heat.

You maintain better control of the vehicle if you leave the clutch engaged and engine brake instead of slowing down with it disengaged and using the actual brakes. It may not seem that way to inexperienced manual drivers, but once you've driven a manual in traffic a few times you learn that engine braking is safer and more precise. Also, on a large, heavy vehicle with a manual transmission, you can get in trouble wit…

I tend to engine brake except in circumstances where I actually need more braking power.

Especially with hilly driving, it gives you a lot more control when slowing down, and you can accelerate straight away since your foot is still on the accelerator pedal.

There's nothing worse than being stuck behind a driver (usually a tourist) in a hilly area who is riding the brakes all the way down.

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