Earlier quoted context omitted.
Why exactly am I meant to be comforted by the fact that the craven opportunists --- the lowest of the low of the Republican party, discredited outsiders like Newt Gingrich and John Bolton --- are getting the most important positions in the United States government for kowtowing to Trump? There are important thinkers in the Republican Party. People with ideas and a moral core, people who have given years of service to…
America didn't elect a technocrat. We elected a bigmouth reality TV star. Should probably think of the Trump cabinet as something more like a Breitbart sitcom than a functional administration.
Peter Thiel To Join Trump Transition Team
821–830 of 1001 posts
Re: Peter Thiel To Join Trump Transition Team
#822Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Thankfully, freedom of speech is such an integral part of the US, that there is not one side trying to control what the other can say, and the other doing the same back. Sure, you and Donald Trump can say whatever you please. Nobody's restricting your freedom of speech. However, what you say betrays who you are. And what Trump said showed he's a liar, misogynist, tech illiterate, arrogant and overall a disgusting h…
> Sure, you and Donald Trump can say whatever you please. Nobody's restricting your freedom of speech. As opposed to who?
Re: Peter Thiel To Join Trump Transition Team
#823Earlier quoted context omitted.
> The argument stays at the high level of "how could you vote for someone who said that", "he is a monster", etc. It is "I don't want to listen". >> And what Trump said showed he's a liar, misogynist, tech illiterate, arrogant and overall a disgusting human being. And Clinton is not a liar, not a tech illiterate, not arrogant, and not disgusting human being? On misogyny - she has never attacked a woman's character be…
You can argue that a lot of people (Democrats included) didn't want to vote for Clinton either . By that argument you're justifying both candidates' character flaws by saying "Well, you know the other person is just as bad as my choice, so that makes it OK".
> so that makes it OK
How? This is your interpretation.
If you have a choice of two, you must pick one. You have to weight up the options. choosing one doesn't automatically mean endorsing it as the post possible choice, but just the better of the given options.
Re: Peter Thiel To Join Trump Transition Team
#824Earlier quoted context omitted.
Okay, this is why people don't want to listen and debate you: you're living in a weird cartoon universe where "President Trump" isn't a sick joke. Just to take one minor example : Milo Yiannopolous is a racist bully. That's literally the only thing most people who have heard about him know about him. "Milo Yiannopolous? Isn't he that racist bully who picked on the actress from the 'Ghostbusters' movie?" You calling t…
Out of all the comments in this thread, you win the prize. I said: Liberals just say everyone is a racist bully and then don't want to listen. You say: Milo is a racist bully. I don't want to listen and debate you. I hope you are influential and charistmatic, because your desseminated ignorance will help Trump win in 2020. Thank you!
Re: Peter Thiel To Join Trump Transition Team
#825Earlier quoted context omitted.
My issue with Trump has never really been about his politics. I get that immigration and loss of manufacturing jobs due to globalization are serious concerns for a large swath of the American population. What I don't understand is how anyone could feel comfortable with him as commander in chief, or as the US's representative in the international community. Perhaps that's not what most people are concerned about, but…
> how anyone could feel comfortable with him as commander in chief I understand what you are saying here. He struggles to speak eloquently, and does not have a statesman-like persona. He is no traditional president. But look at the last 15 years of foreign policy from "statesmen". We had two wars, Obama missed seeing the rise of ISIS, Syria is a humanitarian nightmare, we had a huge financial crash, and terrorism is…
There are factors in play here beyond the background of the US president; Global politics, foreign leaders, policies in other countries, civilian actions, etc. To say that the US president being a "statesman" caused all of those things is a massive leap in logic.
Re: Peter Thiel To Join Trump Transition Team
#826A huge issue today is the lack of calm, reasoned debate. As a Trump supporter I have never been able to properly explain the rationale to a liberal. I believe there is a worthy debate beneath all the political smear, but it is never reached. I believe the reason for this is the liberal media and the incredibly effective Democratic party election machine. The argument stays at the high level of "how could you vote for…
I get that huge swaths of the electorate feel like this system hasn't been working, and that' it's all manipulated by career political insiders who have their own brand of benevolent authoritarianism. I get the distrust of a liberal culture that overvalues its own contributions to society, and has a false sense of how correct they are and why they are where they are, and overlooks their own serious problems and prejudices. I understand how the media plays into this, and believe that a lot of what Trump has said has been taken too seriously or distorted, that he was projecting a character rather than an argument, and in doing so, demonstrated empathy with a huge group of the population. I get that population has been so screwed by the current system they just want something different, whether that be Sanders or Trump.
However, I strongly believe that there's a false equivalence in these discussions, and that calls for "reasoned debate" on the American right are often intentionally or unintentionally meant as a negotiating tactic, to cover up arrogant intransigence on their part. They don't get what they want, so rather than contributing something constructive, they accuse the left of "not having a reasoned discussion" or not "compromising." When the GOP and Trump talk about the left "not compromising," they're really meaning "we're not getting what we want."
Relatedly, do you really believe that the things that Trump has said about minorities, women, and so forth are acceptable ways of leading the United States, or treating those who disagreed with you? What would the GOP do if the liberal candidate said the same things about Trump?
Which party shut down congress repeatedly rather than have a reasoned discussion? Which party has been obstructing and crippling the supreme court because they didn't get their way?
The reality is that the GOP lost this election in terms of votes, and yet are still entering the white house because of a broken electoral voting system. Like it or not, Clinton won more votes than Trump. So Trump and the GOP are going to undo everything the majority voted for to get their selfish agenda, because they don't care about the majority of the electorate that voted for someone else. Who is being unreasonable in this situation? It's not the liberal party.
I have plenty of reasons to be angry with both parties, but Trump is dangerous in a way that Clinton was not. Sure, I could find some bright sides to his ticket, but it's overshadowed by a lot to be terrified by.
Re: Peter Thiel To Join Trump Transition Team
#827Earlier quoted context omitted.
6. Dan doesn't understand or empathize with Bob that while Bob may or may not approve just one aspect of a politician but that believes Pence is better than 'x' and thus is also a bigot.
I think that's where we disagree. Given, Dan can't change the fact he's gay. Given, Mike Pence has formally expressed that "Homosexuality is incompatible with military service" and signed into law legislation allowing businesses in Indiana to kick out gay customers when he was governor of Indiana. Given, Mike Pence's party controls the Congress, Executive, and Legislative branches of government. It follows it is like…
If an establishment candidate like Hillary is seen as harmful to Bob, is there a burden on Dan to explain why the risk of voting for her is Ok?
Re: Peter Thiel To Join Trump Transition Team
#828Earlier quoted context omitted.
Here is what I said 25 days ago: > I think Thiel is hedging for both himself and as a proxy for Facebook. If Trump wins, Facebook gets the most favored corporation status currently awarded to Google. If Trump loses, Thiel perhaps assumes everyone will forget soon enough and Zuckerberg can diss-avow any Facebook connection. In retrospect, the one thing I think I was wrong about were the odds. I thought it was a long s…
So Facebook (& Thiel) is to Trump what Pollyhop is to Conway on House of Cards.
Re: Peter Thiel To Join Trump Transition Team
#829Earlier quoted context omitted.
> you were willing to potentially sacrifice women's rights, minorities rights, lgbt+ rights, the environment, business regulations, and whatever else conservative Trump appointments might do? You see how here you are saying that I am in favour of sacrificing womens, minorities, lgbt, etc. rights. You see how it is basically saying: You are are a sexist, misogynist, racist? Why don't you ask me what I think about thos…
> You see how it is basically saying: You are are a sexist, misogynist, racist? Oh cry me a river. It's starting to look like your only debating tactic is "stop oppressing me". You said it yourself that you voted for quoting "a racist, sexist, misogynist, xenophobe" because "One side is for freedom of speech, the other side is for controlling what you can say." How is floodyberrys post not a fair representation of yo…
They've also appropriated the 'there is no absolute' truth idea, that is used to try to make people understand differing perceptions. It was used to try get people to accept different view points, basically something that liberals and hippies came up with in the 60s. Now it's been appropriate to further the post-truth politics. If there is no truth, why not always lie.
The real frustrating part is that this conflict was totally unnecessary. Yes listening to feminists and black people can sometimes by hard to white males, it sometimes appears unfair and as if they want to 'reverse' the world. But overall, that's not the aim of these movements. And we (the white males) should really just give them the benefit of the doubt. We should listen. It hurts, but the conflict hurts them more.
Instead, some of the people in a traditional position of privilege have successfully turned around the conversation, into "no, you should listen to us".
And now this group of people, many of whom were traditionally democrats (even may have voted for Obama), now voted for Trump. They are the swing vote.
Re: Peter Thiel To Join Trump Transition Team
#830Earlier quoted context omitted.
You are lying to yourself. I think that you don't even realize that you are doing it it. I guess this explains how somebody can vote for Trump. And if Trump screws up the country you will again lie to yourself as to why you are not responsible. Why your vote for Trump did not matter. And then you will blame everybody else.
And if he doesn't?
The country by the way is in pretty good condition right now. People have easily forgotten 2008. I really hope we do not need to do another clean up in 2020.
Will you accept you screw up if he screws up the country?
By the way, I think you are trying to gaslight us by using half truths. The same half truths you've used to convince yourself that Trump is good for the country.