Live data from Hacker News

As AI eats the web, the internet’s collective memory is disappearing

thewalrus.ca

811–820 of 1001 posts

Re: As AI eats the web, the internet’s collective memory is disappearing

#811

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a good point - I've heard people make the same one whenever LLMs are brought up. I hope someday you're able to get more value from them. Anyway, my pool's looking great and I gained some new skills. I probably could have gotten there with books and YouTube alone, but having another tool at my disposal made me a bit more confident.

I remember this was brought up about a month or so on HN, in the context of describing how one person's experience using LLMs can be so vastly different than another person's: "LLMs seem good at things you are not good at." So, if you've never touched PVC before, LLM sounds plausibly competent--it may actually be or it may not be, but you'll walk away from it thinking you learned something. If you are a professional…

> So, if you've never touched PVC before, LLM sounds plausibly competent

well to be fair, it's sounds about as competent as your average homedepot employee. He's wasn't doing something super complicated, cutting and gluing PVC for an above ground pool is very common and doesn't require a plumber. I used some youtube videos to fix my dishwasher, i didn't need a professional service agent from the manufacturer I just needed some pointers.

as for software writing, for standard everyday enterprise app work which is typically just CRUD and moving data around it works fine. That kind of software does not need to be a highly tuned work of art to meet the requirements.

Re: As AI eats the web, the internet’s collective memory is disappearing

#812

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like if you had wanted to you could have done it before. When I got a pool in 2020,there were still old school phpBB forums out there dedicated to DIY and maintenance. That same summer, my neighbour who in no way is techie or handy redid his plumbing too.

This was my take as well. I just don't buy that ChatGPT was some critical prerequisite to doing a pretty standard DIY task.

There are just boatloads of people who say "Oh LLMs are magically good because of democratizing access to information"

Except, for people who were gently motivated, that information was already pretty well democratized by libraries. You could trivially go to the library, and get whatever books were published on a topic, even if the only copy was on the other side of the country. Tons of the famous names from previous decades got their start teaching themselves things from a book in a library. It was very common in the technical churn of the 20th century that a new project at work meant you went to the library and grabbed books on a brand new topic and self-taught. This for example is how some programmers in the 90s developed 3D engines.

There was even a short period of human history where it was common to pay a few thousand dollars for a family encyclopedia. I got my start reading an 80s encyclopedia, focusing on the more technical tomes, before I found Wikipedia. The drive to access and learn information lead to me learning about computers in a time and place where a formal education on the subject was unavailable to me. I owe my career to it.

After the existence of Ebay, a few hundred dollars could populate a shelf with the standard reference books and material for nearly any interest. All it took was a willingness to look for books, buy them, and sit down and read them.

Similarly, the internet did the same since the 90s. Specifically, it allowed for non-physical clubs to supplement the fact that not everyone lived in Silicon Valley and could access those rich clubs on niche topics. But special interest magazines were already providing some of that functionality.

The primary filtering LLMs do is provide new access and ability to people who are far too lazy and unmotivated to do the real work necessary to learn about something without being literally spoon fed.

This helps explain why the primary thing LLMs have done is increase the noise floor of information, and explains differing sentiments. People willing to put in minimal effort to learn things had zero issue learning new information in the previous regime, so aren't that impressed when an LLM regurgitates the wikipedia intro paragraph or summarizes a popular reference. They already read that. They note that the LLMs confidence is often unwarranted, and they get reasonable results because they have foundational understanding of the domain and already know which pitfalls and problems to be concerned about, and how to prompt the LLM to make the right choices.

For people who largely are unwilling to take minimum effort to learn something new, of course LLMs feel magical, because Wikipedia level introductions to topics are magic to people who aren't already seeking them out. Of course, the question is, what in the world was previously stopping you from learning new things?

Re: As AI eats the web, the internet’s collective memory is disappearing

#813

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The shared reality in that example includes only facts: OP and mum went to a movie. The movie was called X. The actors were Y and Z. The original point of this subthread was that we can't even agree on a shared set of facts anymore! The political Right has an entirely different set of facts than the political Left, and when our reality is derived from those facts, we cannot share the same reality anymore.

If the facts can differ then they’re not facts. What you’re then dealing with is propaganda.

Then, we're just back to OP's conundrum: "Everything is opinion." I'll say grass is green and you'll say grass is red, and there can be no fact because they differ.

Re: As AI eats the web, the internet’s collective memory is disappearing

#814
post #196

AI will kill the internet because it is killing the incentive to make it. It is an industrial-strength example of why we don’t allow stealing.

> AI will kill the internet because it is killing the incentive to make it. You could make the same argument for Wikipedia (that webs get less traffic if people get their answers from Wikipedia article returned as the first from web search, which is based on internet sources).

I don't think that follows. Wikipedia's sourcing rules overwhelmingly favor publications released for non-pageview-based purposes (academic writing, books), or journalistic productions (whose pageview-based revenue is almost entirely earned right after they're released, and where Wikipedia's reference to them is primarily of value later on). Also, Wikipedia's nature as a structured, not-seeking-engagement index of info means that a lot of people who seek it out are folks who wouldn't (for whatever reason) fall back to giving other sites pageviews if it didn't exist.

Re: As AI eats the web, the internet’s collective memory is disappearing

#815
post #778

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I remember this was brought up about a month or so on HN, in the context of describing how one person's experience using LLMs can be so vastly different than another person's: "LLMs seem good at things you are not good at." So, if you've never touched PVC before, LLM sounds plausibly competent--it may actually be or it may not be, but you'll walk away from it thinking you learned something. If you are a professional…

This sounds accurate. I am not a mechanic by trade, but I know nearly everything there is to know about working on an ICE car. I did paint cars professionally for a bit. LLMs are absolutely full of garbage advice, when I try to use it for troubleshooting. However, people who don't know anything about cars are telling me it helped them fix issues. I am assuming their issues were maybe surface level and something I wou…

if it helped them fix issues then it helped them fix issues. Good for them. Maybe their problems didn't rise to your bar but at least they were able to get it solved. That's very useful and empowering to people without the direct knowledge and experience themselves.

Re: As AI eats the web, the internet’s collective memory is disappearing

#816

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Stop the purchase and sale of user data, period. Kill the weed at the root.

Who's selling user data? Do you think Facebook is out there selling it? How do I buy it if so?

not directly, but https://brightdata.com/products/datasets/facebook

Re: As AI eats the web, the internet’s collective memory is disappearing

#817
post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That was true until a few months ago. Now, it almost never has relevant results, and I've given up on it.

It seemed like Google was good ten+ years ago and then gradually trended towards being rotten around 2020-2022. In those days blogspam was king. I want a cooking recipe and it would show me a life story. Or I wanted a OG web game but a link farm would come up top. I think there are leaked internal comms where they discuss nerfing search results to pump engagement and ads impressions. No doubt it would boost ad bids t…

[dead]

Re: As AI eats the web, the internet’s collective memory is disappearing

#818

I called this maybe 3y ago, but I think so did everyone else that was sane. Sure, we get immense value from AI, but indiscriminately injecting into everything, the one thing we know to be unreliable above the threshold we used to fire people for, is probably the greatest undoing of all the good companies like Google brought to the internet. I mean what a way to destroy your legacy of democratizing information. The am…

Very soon, everything easily accessible on the Internet will be a never-ending loop of AI slop. Will this push us back to analogue things? Not in an apocalyptic scenario, but in general, and by analogue, I don't mean no use of computers but use of computing with a firm and predictable human touch and control.

Will there be venues left (largely) unencumbered by AI to even turn analogue? The top-down control of our industries, financial systems, education, etc by a few mega corporations and fewer mega rich people, who also have vested interests in the advent of AI as AI corps are trying to be, means there's nothing left where AI is not inserted in every vein and nerve and nerve centre.

It is as if a few people in the world are trying to turn this world into something Frankensteinian because they think that then they will get the chance to be the only ones to control this Frankensteinian. They might as well succeed. To what end? I do not believe even they know that. Blindness of greed.

Re: As AI eats the web, the internet’s collective memory is disappearing

#819
post #699

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not necessarily. A shared reality is one where people are discussing the same thing (within a reasonable margin) even if filtered by their individual perceptions, and drawing different conclusions. I don't know the word for the opposite of shared reality (maybe private individualized realities), but it results in a scenario where you have nothing in common with other people other than "I saw some thing" and therefore…

"I don't know the word for the opposite of shared reality" Different cultures?

Maybe, but not necessarily.

I think different cultures can share the same reality, though filtered through different lenses.

If two people from different cultures watch the same movie, one finds it ok and the other offensive and disrespectful, that's a shared reality filtered through different cultural backgrounds. Even if either version of the movie is dubbed, censored, or altered in any way, there's still enough common or shared material that a discussion can be held.

If two people had completely different experiences and watched completely different, tailor-made movies, then there's very little for them to discuss or even disagree with. "I haven't watched your movie", "I haven't watched yours either", "Mine was better", "I guess... I wouldn't know, I thought mine was cool", etc. No shared reality.

Re: As AI eats the web, the internet’s collective memory is disappearing

#820
post #196

AI will kill the internet because it is killing the incentive to make it. It is an industrial-strength example of why we don’t allow stealing.

I feel honored if my ideas are processed by an AI and then used to help others. I feel no more entitled to exclusive use or credit for my ideas as used by AI than I would if I had talked to someone at a conference who went on to be influenced by my ideas to do something good after forgetting my name.

The prospect of all human ideas accumulating inside a machine that makes these ideas accessible and useful to everyone on command is beautiful, not discouraging. Humans aren't discouraged from creating or exploring in Star Trek because of the computer, but I could imagine the Ferengi computer being hobbled at the kneecaps by requiring licensing and credit for every single idea inside it, and the user needs to insert a coin every time they want to ask it a question, which gets divided among every living Ferengi and the estates of every long-dead Ferengi whose writings influenced the output. We should not aspire to be like the Ferengi.

Post reply on HN