Live data from Hacker News

Uber's $1,500/month AI limit is a useful signal for AI tool pricing

simonwillison.net

811–819 of 819 posts

Re: Uber's $1,500/month AI limit is a useful signal for AI tool pricing

#811

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, that says a lot about the kind of crisis out current economy is in. How much longer can the United States Be a world leader when it’s primary function is social media and advertising

Advertising is huge because it's backed by a ton of very real products that people go and buy. It matters because people don't automatically have awareness of things they could find useful. And writing code is one of the most economically productive activities you can do. Why is it controversial that a technology is good at this?

That value for advertising goes negative on a marginal basis.

The first time (or few times) you saw an advert, you were informed of the product's existence. I now know the Hyundai Elantra exists and could potentially be suitable for my vehicle needs. Mission accomplished.

The next 10,000 times it's just fighting over share of a finite market. I am not expecting to buy another car for another few years, so reminding me that I can choose an Elantra instead of a Corolla at all times is just vapourising cash. In fact, there's a chance that you do something obnoxious in your ad and actively burn brand reputation.

You could argue it's a take on the "everyone uses a different 5% of the features" problem-- that advertisement is going to be within the first "informational" window for someone, but maybe there are more efficient ways to not blast it at uninterested audiences.

One other angle might be asking if we still need some markets to be competitive in the first place. You don't need ads if it's a "when you need X, you'll know where to find it" sort of product. If we nationalized the insurance industry alone, we'd probably eliminate a detectable percentage of ad volume.

Re: Uber's $1,500/month AI limit is a useful signal for AI tool pricing

#812
post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wish I could disable most of these. I already hate all the "oh you're actually right, let me fix that" nonsense. Then it proceeds to burn 50k tokens on the git history instead of copying logic A from a different part of the codebase to logic B, where I want that exact logic without having to write the boilerplate myself...

A lot of the time if you're copying code from one place to another what you actually want to do is abstract it so you can reuse it in both places. The LLM can easily do this type of stuff, just tell it and it'll happily do it. This is exactly what I mean when I tell people they need to work closer with the AI, tell it how to do things. Don't just tell it what to do and get frustrated when it does it differently than…

That feels like a market failure though. For a tool to be a useful extension of the user, it should work in the way a user expects it, without a huge amount of having to realign and repackage your normal process.

Maybe that's something we can hope for in a next-generation of LLM product. Right now, the race seems to be all about performance and capability, but maybe when we get to a plateau of performance, vendors can start differentiating by building tools with clearer voices and expectations-- focused system prompts and training, maybe. If you know DeepSeek will follow your requests fairly literally, while Qwen will start adding best-effort tweaks, you can decide which one is the right choice for a given task.

I asked Claude to read two logs and assemble them in a single table for easy reading the other day. It takes me like 30 seconds to pull and toggle between the logs normally, but I figured it would be nice to have a skill to let the machine crunch it all onto a single page. After 5 minutes, it spat up a ball of Markdown with half the content truncated and summarized it in a way I didn't ask for and had no interest in.

If I had asked a human to do it, there's no way it would come to that conclusion because doing the wrong thing is literally more effort. Maybe the model did those things because "typical" requests want summarization so it's the implicit default, but IT SHOULDN'T BE MY RESPONSIBILITY TO GUESS THIS.

Re: Uber's $1,500/month AI limit is a useful signal for AI tool pricing

#813

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no evidence that per-token inference prices (which is what Uber is setting a cap on) is subsidized.

The evidence that per-token inference _is_ subsidized is (a) competition is a bloodbath (b) these companies are raising more money than any company has raised ever (c) a maybe-profitable quarter is maybe-coming for Anthropic after maybe-signing a compute deal with SpaceX that legitimizes both companies. The evidence that per-token inference _is not_ subsidized is... a quote or two from Dario and Sam Altman

You think Fireworks is subsidizing token spend? And Friendli? And Baseten?

Every single provider on Openrouter is offering their service at a loss?

What?

Re: Uber's $1,500/month AI limit is a useful signal for AI tool pricing

#814

Why are people getting these high spending numbers? A 200 USD subscription for either Codex or Claude should give you plenty of usage. What am I missing? Are they just being dumb?

The subscriptions are not available to enterprise users. Enterprise users must pay per-token. A $200 subscription gives you roughly the equivalent of $1500 in per-token billing.

What does enterprise mean in this context? Is it about privacy guarantees not offfered for the subscriptions? For sensitive data the only solution is local. But maybe companies do trust these agreements? I'm very confused.

Re: Uber's $1,500/month AI limit is a useful signal for AI tool pricing

#815
post #812
post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of the time if you're copying code from one place to another what you actually want to do is abstract it so you can reuse it in both places. The LLM can easily do this type of stuff, just tell it and it'll happily do it. This is exactly what I mean when I tell people they need to work closer with the AI, tell it how to do things. Don't just tell it what to do and get frustrated when it does it differently than…

That feels like a market failure though. For a tool to be a useful extension of the user, it should work in the way a user expects it, without a huge amount of having to realign and repackage your normal process. Maybe that's something we can hope for in a next-generation of LLM product. Right now, the race seems to be all about performance and capability, but maybe when we get to a plateau of performance, vendors ca…

You're just expecting too much. If a task takes you 30 seconds to do you're almost certainly better off doing it yourself than getting an LLM to do it. If it's a recurring task it might make sense to create a skill for it, and this is exactly the use case for skills. Give precise instructions so it does the task correctly, and save them for later so you can do it again easily.

I don't really get how you guys can be so demanding - this technology is magic. It's doing things that 5 years ago we could only dream of. It still blows my mind every time I paste a screenshot of some vague issue along with a quick and dirty prompt and it just gets it and gives me the right answer immediately.

In the hands of a competent user these things are absolutely incredible, I can develop solutions faster, with higher quality and less effort. So honestly man all you guys complaining that they aren't good enough? I can't help but think you guys must really not be very competent. Complaining about problems while the solution is staring you in the face.

Re: Uber's $1,500/month AI limit is a useful signal for AI tool pricing

#816
post #815
post #812

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That feels like a market failure though. For a tool to be a useful extension of the user, it should work in the way a user expects it, without a huge amount of having to realign and repackage your normal process. Maybe that's something we can hope for in a next-generation of LLM product. Right now, the race seems to be all about performance and capability, but maybe when we get to a plateau of performance, vendors ca…

You're just expecting too much. If a task takes you 30 seconds to do you're almost certainly better off doing it yourself than getting an LLM to do it. If it's a recurring task it might make sense to create a skill for it, and this is exactly the use case for skills. Give precise instructions so it does the task correctly, and save them for later so you can do it again easily. I don't really get how you guys can be s…

> I don't really get how you guys can be so demanding - this technology is magic

That could be the problem. I suspect a lot of developers have spent years developing workflows and understandings based on the idea the machine is precise, repeatable, and does exactly as it's told. "Magic" is a very poor match for that strategy.

> Complaining about problems while the solution is staring you in the face.

Not quite sure what the "solution" is here. Am I supposed to try to restyle the prompt to be "quick and dirty" to give Claude more room to stretch and hopefully hit my desired goal? Or am I supposed to iterate repeatedly on the skill to add a harness of "don't truncate that, don't add a summary, etc" until it behaves how I want?

I'm not saying you're wrong. I think it's almost more like the difference between programming languages. If you come into writing FORTRAN with a TCL/Tk mindset, you're going to have a hard time getting what you want, but the industry understood that and made environments for both. I suspect right now, since the big market is outside the hardcore programmer market, they're going to focus on the "it does magic with vague prompts" version before the "it's reliable and precise with specific prompts" one.

Re: Uber's $1,500/month AI limit is a useful signal for AI tool pricing

#819

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The evidence that per-token inference _is_ subsidized is (a) competition is a bloodbath (b) these companies are raising more money than any company has raised ever (c) a maybe-profitable quarter is maybe-coming for Anthropic after maybe-signing a compute deal with SpaceX that legitimizes both companies. The evidence that per-token inference _is not_ subsidized is... a quote or two from Dario and Sam Altman

You think Fireworks is subsidizing token spend? And Friendli? And Baseten? Every single provider on Openrouter is offering their service at a loss? What?

Yes I believe Anthropic is selling its tokens to Fireworks and Openrouter at a loss.
Post reply on HN