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Motorola announces a partnership with GrapheneOS

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Re: Motorola announces a partnership with GrapheneOS

#811
post #742

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Microwaves are a bad example. The cheaper ones are white labels basically all made in the same factory in China. The customer has no way to know if the slightly more expensive one is actually more durable or, much more likely, just the same, but generates more profit for the intermediaries. In this situation it is wiser to get the cheaper one.

Consumers have no way to tell that a phone gives "privacy" or even to understand the implications of that to their life. They have a significantly easier time understanding an error message that says "because your device has an unlocked bootloader, you can't use the app"

> Consumers have no way to tell that a phone gives "privacy" or even to understand the implications of that to their life.

This is the sort of thing anyone can look up on the internet before buying one.

The reason that doesn't work for white label microwaves is that the manufacturers don't want it to. The off brands exist so they can make sales to people who prioritize price, and they purposely change the company name every month so no one can find a review of the off brand and the same company can sell the same microwave with a higher margin to other people who will pay more for the name brand.

Whereas when your company makes a phone with better privacy etc., you want everybody to know that so they buy your phone instead of a competitor's.

> They have a significantly easier time understanding an error message that says "because your device has an unlocked bootloader, you can't use the app"

Indeed, it immediately lets them know that their bank sucks and they need a better one. (It's actually a pretty decent red flag that your bank has a cargo cult security team.)

Re: Motorola announces a partnership with GrapheneOS

#812

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You seem to be misinterpreting the implication. The implication is that the consumer would never ask for what they actually want, because the consumer can't even conceive the possibility of what they really want being available. Ask an exercise, ask yourself this: if you could offer every iPhone or Android shopper the choice between their current OS, and an otherwise exactly identical one that just wasn't listening t…

The average consumer wants a phone with their personal balance of: * Feature * Price * Looks/status Everything else is completely irrelevant. Now, what features and what looks varies over time. But something as intangible as being 'more open' or 'more private' just isn't significant for most people. People on HN care. Average consumers do not. It's too ethereal and meaningless. If a new phone or service had a specifi…

And a good selfie cam for their duck faces.

Re: Motorola announces a partnership with GrapheneOS

#813

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Consumers have no way to tell that a phone gives "privacy" or even to understand the implications of that to their life. They have a significantly easier time understanding an error message that says "because your device has an unlocked bootloader, you can't use the app"

> Consumers have no way to tell that a phone gives "privacy" or even to understand the implications of that to their life. This is the sort of thing anyone can look up on the internet before buying one. The reason that doesn't work for white label microwaves is that the manufacturers don't want it to. The off brands exist so they can make sales to people who prioritize price, and they purposely change the company nam…

> This is obviously false. It's the sort of thing anyone can look up on the internet before buying one.

It's not something that's quantifiable, and it's easily manipulable. The iPhone(tm) has a twelth-generation quantum superconducting wonderflonium chip that enables (pile of technobabble garbage) and "privacy".

This Motorola thing has (pile of technobabble garbage) and "privacy".

Consumers don't understand and they don't care. Even the ones with technologically savvy friends don't want the hassle, they want something that works.

How has 30 years of "Microsoft is anti-consumer and , you should use Linux" worked out for consumer market share?

> Indeed, it immediately lets them know that their bank sucks and they need a better one.

If you think even 0.1% of consumers would switch banks to buy some new phone, this conversation is not worth continuing as you and I don't live in the same reality.

Re: Motorola announces a partnership with GrapheneOS

#814

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Curve Pay refused to give me an account on my Murena FP6 That's probably because /e/OS uses microG, which is vastly inferior to Sandboxed Google Play on GrapheneOS, and has much worse app compatibility. You should also know that /e/OS is a highly insecure OS, and both Fairphone and Murena are constantly misleading their customers with false marketing and false promises.

MicroG has two huge advantages: you can inspect the code it's running, and you're not tied to Google services. For example you can replace the location service with a privacy respecting one. With the sandboxed play you can't do that, you're stuck with the Google version. The only thing you still need Google for is the push notifications, because the backend of the apps only speaks to them. It would be amazing if grap…

> you can inspect the code it's running

That's only true for microG itself, not the Google blobs it needs to download and execute in order to function. GmsCompat on GrapheneOS is also fully open source.[1]

> For example you can replace the location service with a privacy respecting one.

GrapheneOS literally does that.[2] It's currently not perfect in regard to privacy because they are using Apple's Wi-Fi positioning service, but proxying it through their own servers, so Apple never gets the user's IP address or any unique identifiers, and link the location information to any other data. One thing Apple currently does better than most network location providers is the fact that they don't just return position data for one BSSID, they actually give you the data for hundreds of nearby BSSIDs as well[3], which is more private, and means that much fewer requests need to be made to the service.

Because of this aforementioned aspect, Apple's Wi-Fi positioning system is also incredibly easy to scrape. GrapheneOS plans to build their own database, and let users download it, so Wi-Fi positioning could be performed fully locally.

> It would be amazing if grapheneos would support microG as an option. But they are too much "not invented here" for that to happen.

GrapheneOS doesn't support microG, because it has worse app compatibility than Sandboxed Google Play, and requires elevated privileges, unlike SGP.

[1] https://github.com/GrapheneOS/platform_packages_apps_GmsComp...

[2] https://grapheneos.org/features#network-location

[3] https://github.com/acheong08/apple-corelocation-experiments

Re: Motorola announces a partnership with GrapheneOS

#815
post #356
post #277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're in Europe you can use Curve Pay, PayPal and multiple banks which haven't moved to Google Pay. Alternatively, pay in cash if you want privacy.

Curve Pay refused to give me an account on my Murena FP6 and no local bank offers contactless without google pay, so I'm stuck using a bank card like a caveman.

> so I'm stuck using a bank card like a caveman.

What is "caveman" about a payment method that doesn't need to have a charged battery?

Re: Motorola announces a partnership with GrapheneOS

#816

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any chance of having a finger print scanner on the back of the phone? I personally really dislike the screen ones. They're slower, less reliable and the location is unnatural.

Mine (really cheap G05) has it on the power button, much better than the back where it used to be on older models. Motorola have been innovative with the UX. It lights up when I pick it up, shake twice to toggle flashlight (extremely useful when looking for dog poop) and so on. Only brand I've considered for about a decade.

Shake to toggle flashlight is the one feature that makes people ask about my phone.

Re: Motorola announces a partnership with GrapheneOS

#817

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Are you sure about this? It was my understanding that NFC passes for gyms and stuff worked This is only true for Google Wallet. It can be used as a normal wallet app for stuff like plane tickets, etc., but Google Pay requires the OS to be specifically whitelisted by Google. This is an incredibly anti-competitive move aimed at supporting Google's monopoly by deliberately disabling functionality on alternative (inclu…

Is Curve Pay going to sell my data to someone?

Definitely wouldn't be unheard of in the Fintech industry. But I don't know, because I don't use the service. My bank thankfully offers their own implementation of NFC payments within their own app, so I don't need to rely on any third-party services. Many banks in Europe actually do this. Here's a German article about Google-free mobile payments on GrapheneOS: https://www.kuketz-blog.de/nfc-datenschutzfreundlich-bezahle...

Re: Motorola announces a partnership with GrapheneOS

#818

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> firmware BLOBs Nitpick, but it’s just ‘blob’ as in ‘a big blob of bytes’. It’s not an acronym or abbreviation for anything :)

In the database world a BLOB is a Binary Large OBject ... are you sure of your etymology? Edit: and I'm not btw - for all I know BLOB in DB land might be backronym from blob in the common usage.

Wikipedia lists exactly the two cases you mention [0]:

> > Not to be confused with Binary large object (BLOB).

> In the context of free and open-source software, proprietary software only available as a binary executable is referred to as a blob or binary blob.

[0]:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binary_blob

Re: Motorola announces a partnership with GrapheneOS

#819

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yup, tried Graphene but went back to Android because of NFC payments.

Using your phone instead of a plastic card is that important to you, at the cost of your privacy?

Yes. Until we can use our palms to pay like they do in China. I lost too many cards when I was still using them.

Re: Motorola announces a partnership with GrapheneOS

#820

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Consumers have no way to tell that a phone gives "privacy" or even to understand the implications of that to their life. This is the sort of thing anyone can look up on the internet before buying one. The reason that doesn't work for white label microwaves is that the manufacturers don't want it to. The off brands exist so they can make sales to people who prioritize price, and they purposely change the company nam…

> This is obviously false. It's the sort of thing anyone can look up on the internet before buying one. It's not something that's quantifiable, and it's easily manipulable. The iPhone(tm) has a twelth-generation quantum superconducting wonderflonium chip that enables (pile of technobabble garbage) and "privacy". This Motorola thing has (pile of technobabble garbage) and "privacy". Consumers don't understand and they…

> It's not something that's quantifiable, and it's easily manipulable. The iPhone(tm) has a twelth-generation quantum superconducting wonderflonium chip that enables (pile of technobabble garbage) and "privacy".

That's the marketing noise from the company itself. Then you go to Reddit or similar and ask technically competent people what they recommend.

> Even the ones with technologically savvy friends don't want the hassle, they want something that works.

The phone that supports open operating systems is the one that's less of a hassle. It doesn't go out of support even though there's nothing wrong with it, it isn't full of spyware and weird bugs because people can actually fix them when the OEM doesn't, it has a working ad blocker etc.

> How has 30 years of "Microsoft is anti-consumer and , you should use Linux" worked out for consumer market share?

Windows market share was >90%, now it's 67% and still falling. And that's just desktops; Microsoft was completely abandoned in the mobile market because they were so widely hated. By most accounts Windows Phone was actually decent but being from the notorious company whose OS nobody uses unless they're locked in was a death sentence.

> If you think even 0.1% of consumers would switch banks to buy some new phone, this conversation is not worth continuing as you and I don't live in the same reality.

You're not switching banks to buy a new phone, you're switching banks because when you bought a new phone it made you realize that your bank sucks. Which annoyed you enough to spend five minutes checking out other banks, at which point you realized there are credit unions that not only support your new phone but pay better interest rates and charge lower fees.

Then you remember that time when they charged you that fee for some BS reason last year and you swore you were going to get a new bank but never got around to it, and decide that you'd rather get on with what you always intended to do sooner rather than later instead of replacing your new phone that you otherwise like.

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