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The struggle of resizing windows on macOS Tahoe

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Re: The struggle of resizing windows on macOS Tahoe

#811

Post by crazygringo »

eloisius wrote: post #375
crazygringo wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I appreciate your frustration, but at the same time what is Apple supposed to do? If it's affecting only a tiny number of users, and you just happen to be an unlucky one, and they don't know how to reproduce it, and you can't help them reproduce it, then what? I think they just have to wait until somebody (such as yourself) is able to figure out with some kind of logging what is happening. E.g. the first question to…

They could throw some small portion of their billions of dollars into proper quality control and reproduce it themselves if they wanted to. It’s an industry-wide malaise, but it isn’t inevitable. It’s amazing that every year it becomes more and more economically nonviable for basic shit to meet the most modest standards of usability, yet we can use the power consumption of a small country to have Copilot in Notepad.

> They could throw some small portion of their billions of dollars into proper quality control and reproduce it themselves if they wanted to.

How?

How do you reproduce something when you have no idea of the cause and it's not happening on any of your machines?

And remember they don't have just this one unreproducible bug reported. They have thousands.

If you have experience writing software, you're going to end up with a lot of unreproducible bug reports. They're a genuine challenge for everyone, not just Apple.

Re: The struggle of resizing windows on macOS Tahoe

#813

Post by MarleTangible »

danaris wrote: post #535
signal11 wrote: post #9

Tahoe is a macOS mis-step on par with Windows 8 or Windows Vista. If you’re from Apple and reading this, my feedback is pretty succinct: “I don’t recommend others upgrade. I wish I didn’t.” Luckily for Apple, Windows 11 is not exactly in a position to attract switchers. Let’s see if Apple can turn things around. iOS 8+ did improve on iOS 7’s worst bits.

Given the departure of Alan Dye and his replacement with someone (whose name I have temporarily forgotten) who comes from an actual UI design background, I am very optimistic that the next few iterations of macOS and iOS will actually start to improve the UI situation.

I still think Alan Dye was secretly fired. When you live in a bubble and everybody around you is propping you up, you think everything is fine and dandy, but users don't care about your or anybody's feelings.

Dye didn't bring something that users didn't know they needed, he brought chaos to the entire ecosystem, and he's the only Apple executive folks are willing to talk garbage about.

Re: The struggle of resizing windows on macOS Tahoe

#814

Post by leokennis »

signal11 wrote: post #9

Tahoe is a macOS mis-step on par with Windows 8 or Windows Vista. If you’re from Apple and reading this, my feedback is pretty succinct: “I don’t recommend others upgrade. I wish I didn’t.” Luckily for Apple, Windows 11 is not exactly in a position to attract switchers. Let’s see if Apple can turn things around. iOS 8+ did improve on iOS 7’s worst bits.

I'm not sure if it's pure nostalgia but I long back to the "Lion era" of OS X.

Apple had a HIG and third party developers used it. Different apps looked consistent: toolbar, sidebar etc.

Apps had borders. If there was too much content there were big blue scrollbars.

Buttons had borders. Windows had texture. You could find stuff.

I could go on forever. But the OS was simultaneously better visible to the eye, and less visible to the mind. Stuff worked.

Re: The struggle of resizing windows on macOS Tahoe

#815

Post by NoSalt »

IMHO, Mac OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard was the pinnacle of Mac OS X. When I "upgraded" to 10.7, they lost me. It was then that I switched to Linux full time, and I haven't looked back. Every now and then I do pull out my Wallstreet with Mac OS 9 on it so I can relive the heyday of old school computing.

Re: The struggle of resizing windows on macOS Tahoe

#816

Post by MarleTangible »

gherkinnn wrote: post #630
signal11 wrote: post #9

Tahoe is a macOS mis-step on par with Windows 8 or Windows Vista. If you’re from Apple and reading this, my feedback is pretty succinct: “I don’t recommend others upgrade. I wish I didn’t.” Luckily for Apple, Windows 11 is not exactly in a position to attract switchers. Let’s see if Apple can turn things around. iOS 8+ did improve on iOS 7’s worst bits.

Tahoe is a bit shit, yes. But I was there for both Vista and Windows 8 and they were both utterly unusable. Vista ate every bit of RAM it could find, had severe driver issues and riddled with instabilities. It would not run on half the hardware at the time. I faintly remember a DX10 shitshow as well. And 8 hopelessly tried to apply Metro to the desktop and added a third (or was it forth?) settings panel. Also killed…

Just to be playful, Tahoe killed the launchpad and brought us the random size rounded corner madness.

Re: The struggle of resizing windows on macOS Tahoe

#817

Post by quitit »

oneeyedpigeon wrote: post #756
quitit wrote: post #731

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If one chooses "Always" under the "Show scroll bars" option on the Appearance System Settings panel. They will be rewarded with thick*, always-on scroll bars that do not disappear. *They're the same thickness as Aqua.

Sadly, this doesn't restore the 'resize box', you just get scrollbars ending in a weird curve.

Yes, the scroll bars settings affects the scroll bars.

Re: The struggle of resizing windows on macOS Tahoe

#818

Post by crazygringo »

JoBrad wrote: post #327
crazygringo wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I appreciate your frustration, but at the same time what is Apple supposed to do? If it's affecting only a tiny number of users, and you just happen to be an unlucky one, and they don't know how to reproduce it, and you can't help them reproduce it, then what? I think they just have to wait until somebody (such as yourself) is able to figure out with some kind of logging what is happening. E.g. the first question to…

Windows has had a “prevent apps from stealing focus” option for at least a decade. It was one of the things that I still dislike the most about macOS, and Apple can absolutely address this.

How does that even work?

When you launch an application or open a dialog, you expect the new window to "steal" focus. When you close a dialog, you expect focus to go back to the main window. If it didn't, it would impair usability.

So how would an OS decide when "stealing focus" is allowed and when it is not?

Like, I'm frustrated with it too. I hate when an app pops up a dialog while I'm typing and my next keystroke dismisses it and I have no idea what I've done. But at the same time, I'd hate to have to manually switch focus to a pop-up dialog every single time before dismissing it with Enter or Escape too -- that would be way too annoying in the other direction.

Re: The struggle of resizing windows on macOS Tahoe

#819

Post by whompyjaw »

It makes me really happy when companies continue to fuck up and enshitify their software because it adds more ppl to the Linux/FOSS evosystem. I have a MBP and I love it dearly (the hardware, macOS is fine), but Apple has been disappointing me with each software update on macOS and iOS. The quality of their software is degrading so badly. I know Asahi linux is around, but Im at the point ill just go full Framework and make my ecosystem Linux based (with GrapheneOS on my nee pixel). Just so tired of companies doing such a bad job with billions and billions of dollars. It’s truly unbelievable.

Re: The struggle of resizing windows on macOS Tahoe

#820

Post by hbn »

It's bad but not as bad as Windows 11. I swear I have a 2x2 pixel grid on my 4k monitor where I can grab the window resize handle, and it doesn't align to where the window's actual corner is at all.

Even worse: because the min/max/close buttons are all shunted into the top right corner, if you're trying to resize from the top right and you miss, you close the window.

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