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Homeschooling hits record numbers

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Re: Homeschooling hits record numbers

#811

Post by programjames »

brendoelfrendo wrote: post #415
pdabbadabba wrote: post #343

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It very much is. No where else in life are people forced to mixed with the general unfiltered public. I'm baffled by this. Many workplaces? Mass transit? Walking down the sidewalk? At a concert? Buying groceries? True, there don't all expose you to the full sweep of human existence at once but, in aggregate, it seems pretty similar to what you'd encounter at most public schools. What if they want a career in a hosp…

> You might hope that your child will live a privileged existence unbothered by the rabble I think it's telling that the other responses seem to focus on exactly this; the idea that their child will exist in a class apart from the rabble, and will not have to interact with them. It seems to speak to two very different views of community. On the one hand, there is community as a collection of all the people in a space…

Isn't this exactly what society is built on though? Mutually beneficial interactions borne of choice, not compulsion? And isn't it the sane, rational thing to do to oppose people who compel you to join their community?

Re: Homeschooling hits record numbers

#812

Post by programjames »

class3shock wrote: post #748
hereme888 wrote: post #234

The biggest misunderstanding I hear year-over-year is homeschoolers are "not exposed to the real world". Isolation exists for some, but my extensive interaction with homeschoolers is they are immersed in healthy communities, hand-picked by parents to keep away problem children. Who would plant a flower next to a sick or hostile one? Parents of healthy children should give 0 s*ts of societal/political pressure against…

If schools are problematic or have kids that are problematic, wouldn't it make more sense to focus on investing in them to make them better, adding resources to support difficult kids, to help parents who are not doing well? As opposed to disengaging from them?

It is pretty hard for one parent to change things for the better, even if just for their child in one classroom. The administration and teachers have so many other things to deal with. It's much harder to change the entire school culture. You can volunteer, and you should!, but you still won't make as large an impact on your child's education as you would hope. In some ways, this is good, because there are lots of crazy parents out there who you don't want making impacts on your child's education, but it's also bad if you're not that crazy parent.

Re: Homeschooling hits record numbers

#813

Post by voxl »

alimina wrote: post #721
voxl wrote: post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These are two indisputable facts about our world, if you disagree you are wrong and anti-science: 1. Gender is a social construct 2. Whiteness is a social construct and in particular has been used as a bludgeon against minority "non-whites" in the United States for a very long time If you do not believe these things you are the problem. You lack education. You lack critical thinking. You are brainwashed.

Both of these social constructs must be challenged. The first is used to oppress women and girls primarily, and the second underpins racist oppression.

Of course, I agree. But in the context of education if you reject the above (which MANY people on HN do) then you're delusional. There is nothing nice I have to say about it, and I know how dearly the HN crowd loves to clutch their pearls about the tone. It is akin to believing the world is flat, a broken ideology that should not be entertained.

Once you accept the simple facts as above, then you can finally explore the consequences.

Re: Homeschooling hits record numbers

#814

Post by programjames »

NoMoreNicksLeft wrote: post #663
joshstrange wrote: post #339

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Education is expensive and underfunded. Always makes me think of The West Wing scene: > Education is the silver bullet. Education is everything. We don't need little changes, we need gigantic, monumental changes. Schools should be palaces. The competition for the best teachers should be fierce. They should be making six-figure salaries. Schools should be incredibly expensive for government and absolutely free of ch…

> The competition for the best teachers should be fierce. Our nation needs something on the order of millions of teachers . Competition for the best teachers would work great, if you needed exactly 1 extraordinary teacher. Or even if you needed a dozen. But when you need 40 teachers or more per school district... you're going to end up with alot of mediocre teachers, and more than a few godawful ones. And, I suspect,…

And yet, somehow, there are around a million much higher-quality professors. Yes, you need 5x as many teachers. But you don't find 1 in 5 are at the level of a median professor. You should actually expect more than 1 in 5, given they require less vocational training. There is something fundamentally wrong when you move from tertiary to secondary education, but it isn't an issue of supply and demand.

Re: Homeschooling hits record numbers

#815

Post by programjames »

nightshift1 wrote: post #806
bgnn wrote: post #412

Asking as an non-US person: Is there mandatory education for children in the US? I guess homeschooling fits well with extreme individualistic American culture, no surprises there.

As a Canadian, all I can say after reading all of this is: WTF? I can't understand why anyone would want to keep their children at home instead of sending them to school, and how the government could fail so badly that so many people want to avoid public schools. We are so similar and yet so different

The short answer is people stopped caring about metrics measuring learning, and instead how easy they were to game to support their politics, or make them look like a better teacher or superintendent.

Re: Homeschooling hits record numbers

#816

Post by ethbr1 »

whiddershins wrote: post #644
ethbr1 wrote: post #617

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're straw-manning the worst public school experience against the best possible homeschool experience. > They are the most socialized kids in the US. Bullshit. You know how I know? Because on average parents are terrible at exposing their kids to Things Not Like Them and Things They Don't Approve Of. There are great homeschooling parents and crazy ones, but maybe it's not the worst idea to give kids a few hours a d…

How many conservatives do you socialize with regularly?

Regularly? About 10. (That's 3 MAGA and 7 more traditional conservatives)

Re: Homeschooling hits record numbers

#817

Post by programjames »

tristor wrote: post #245

As somebody that suffered through public school as a gifted kid, I wish I had been homeschooled. Almost everything positive that happened in my education was because of family, not due to the school. School was hell on earth for me, and I imagine it's the same for most other "neurodivergent" kids who are high IQ. Given what I know from my own kid, there's no surprise to me why more people are opting to home school. F…

It is in fact the best outcome, because education is just a ranking game, and it's not like you will end up ranked lower in your school. Also, since the point of education is to help people learn, your calmer presence and pro-learning attitude may rub off on the worst students, and their chance of ending up jobless and in prison will go down!

Re: Homeschooling hits record numbers

#818

Post by JoshTriplett »

programjames wrote: post #804
JoshTriplett wrote: post #469

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It wasn't that uncommon for public schools to make nods toward Christian ideals/lifestyles before like the 90s, but now that stuff just doesn't happen anymore. Schools should absolutely teach Christian mythology and history, and Greek mythology and history, and Egyptian mythology and history, alongside many other subjects. But to the extent that they used to make "nods" towards "this is the cultural default we defe…

Why? How does this benefit the students, except in understanding allusions in books and poetry? Or is that the goal, in which case, sure, but I think Eastern mythologies should be included too.

Same reason for studying literature, in addition to understanding the pervasive allusions and effects throughout society. And yes, of course; that list was an example, not a comprehensive list.

Re: Homeschooling hits record numbers

#819

Post by edoceo »

vlovich123 wrote: post #794
edoceo wrote: post #754

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Age. I said "age peers"

I think you completely missed the point I was trying to make. Age peers are an illusion and only appears like a thing because most people follow a standard distribution; but this does nothing for the people who are further away from the mean.

Maybe you missed when I said "generally". However you seem to be aware of standard distribution (ie generally) and then go on to talk about the edges (again).

I'm not missing your point at all. I'm talking generally and you're just stating (the obvious) that curves (spectrum?) exist and that some (~30%?) are outside the middle of the bell. Neat.

Since we agree there is a range of personalities and intelligence, maybe we agree that wide exposure to others (such as classmates) is, generally, a good thing.

Re: Homeschooling hits record numbers

#820

Post by iteria »

programjames wrote: post #808
gbacon wrote: post #512

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All over this discussion, the big negative has nothing to do with missing out on stellar education, skill development, or expert teachers. Instead, it’s the perpetual handwringing that homeschooled kids won’t be Properly Socialized, i.e. , be exposed to and have to endure mistreatment, disruption, and sometimes assault from other maladjusted, cruel, or even mentally ill peers — because that’s “the real world.” This i…

A common justification for group projects was, "you have to learn how to work with people, even people who will not work." Yeah no, that's not the case. People get filtered through a much finer sieve when they're older.

But that's absolutely the case. You get on a project and someone falls ill or has to take care of someone ill. Or they're shit at their job. Or they're just not as dedicated as you. It doesn't matter if they get fired or accommodated, you have to get it done. You will be punished in some what for not getting it done, whether that is directly or indirectly. Group projects exist in any job with collaboration. You rarely get to choose your group unlike in school and at least proving someone is a slacker has a high chance of impact in school. It's not always the case at all at work.

People discount school rituals, but they happen a lot. Pop quizzes happen all the time within my career. You don't always get to say, "I'll get back to you" as much as we all wish that was true.

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