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End of Japanese community

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Re: End of Japanese community

#811

Post by johnnyanmac »

rectang wrote: post #614
ecshafer wrote: post #573

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They fired the inventor of Javascript as their CEO. They hired some grifter as their CEO who just keeps giving themselves more money. They keep throwing money at vanity side hustles. They purposefully confuse the Mozilla foundation with the browser, and have increasingly made the foundation redirect their funds to C level salaries and their own personal political passion projects that are not aligned with the Mozilla…

At least part of the Mozilla antagonism on HN comes from highly motivated culture war participants. The Brendan Eich situation was a seminal event, but the underlying reasons for it are why the grudge endures.

If there's anything that the Steam and Apple cult has taught me, it's that people will forgive a LOT as long as they feel like they are being appealed to. Both companies had their fair share of culture war issues, but it's water off a ducks' back as long as they respond fast, offer a basic apology, and then continue to push out exciting features.

Mozilla has had 13 years to do that post Eich and they just don't. Every step forward has an asterisk to it if you dig a little.

Re: End of Japanese community

#812

Post by johnnyanmac »

mikkupikku wrote: post #724
price wrote: post #716

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eich's own company, Brave, is pushing AI plenty hard: the Brave browser promotes a "smart AI assistant" called Leo. That's much more AI integration than I see in Firefox.

I don't speak for everybody but personally I like applications experimenting with ways of using new technology instead of taking some sort of political stand against AI. Firefox's translation extension is based on such technology I believe, and works well enough, I like it. Going further, like Brave is doing, also seems interesting. I think people who get upset about ineptly implemented AI features are being a bit un…

Experiment if you want. But leave it at that until it's polished. I shouldn't have alpha features forced on me as a default.That's the primary problem with this AI push. Google keeps trying to push "AI mode" in my face, Microsoft tries to stamp Copillot on my main Taskbar.

At least when Rider asked me about it, I say "no" once and that's the end of it.Cool, no hard feelings. You're $15 a month is earned.

Re: End of Japanese community

#813

Post by johnnyanmac »

Stranger43 wrote: post #279
lopis wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's the mismstch of expectations that causes good communities to create drama. If this was Google, no one would care, as one expects Google to just do what is best for the business. But with companies like Mozilla we expect a bit better. But the truth is they are barely better and the leadership plays by the same rulebook.

But why does it have to be the case that the leadership of an opensource project have to emulate the desperation and authoritarianism of a potentially stagnant tech sector. I don't think it's malevolence from the mozilla leadership team but more that if you hang around people who have bet their lifesaving on the success of cloud based LLMs, being cautious and making their use "optional" might begin to sound like a re…

The people running the show are not the people who started and enforce the idea of an open source initiative, that's why. If most of the current administration got ousted tomorrow you'd see them pop up as senior executives in the very companies Mozilla theoretically decries.

Wolves see the community sheep build and then move in under wool coating. Doesn't mean they still are not in fact a wolf.

Re: End of Japanese community

#814

Post by johnnyanmac »

toyg wrote: post #430
Stranger43 wrote: post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But why does it have to be the case that the leadership of an opensource project have to emulate the desperation and authoritarianism of a potentially stagnant tech sector. I don't think it's malevolence from the mozilla leadership team but more that if you hang around people who have bet their lifesaving on the success of cloud based LLMs, being cautious and making their use "optional" might begin to sound like a re…

> why does it have to be the case that the leadership of an opensource project have to emulate [...] tech sector. Because they live in the same places. They go to the same restaurants, they have the same conversations, they have personal friends at FAANG... they live and breath the same ideas, the same opinions, the same perspectives. They are in a bubble, and think "their" org should partake in the same behaviours a…

>Maybe Mozilla should relocate the bulk of their leadership outside the US.

They don't even have to leave the state. Just don't be stuck in that same stagnant SV bubble and bring in people with genuine ideas and initiative.

Re: End of Japanese community

#815

Post by johnnyanmac »

a13n wrote: post #224
small_scombrus wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm always surprised that stuff like the AI integration isn't done as a pre-installed extension. If it's Mozilla signed then you could give it extra permissions so it still works the same, but then people who it offends can remove it. Like how their tab containers system is a (not pre-installed) extension

ehh this reads a bit like the hn comments complaining about sites that don’t work with js disabled like what percent of firefox users do you think actually care about this?

No one care about this story at large. It's a pretty bad argument to make among the population that does care. Every HN user can leave Firefox and it'd still be running.

Fortunately, history has shown you don't need a majority of users decrying something to get noticed.

Re: End of Japanese community

#816

Post by johnnyanmac »

Hnrobert42 wrote: post #514
ares623 wrote: post #3

This is rich > We want to make sure we trully understand what you're struggling with. The post literally starts with a list of grievances. Maybe ask the AI for an executive summary and the key points.

Yes, and the poster wants to understand them. How would you have responded?

"I'm. Sorry to hear this. I am going to send this message to Team XYZ and see what we can do to better improve Mozilla"

Still might not do anything, but as a CM that's as much of a job as I can do.

Re: End of Japanese community

#817

Post by LunaSea »

jamespo wrote: post #804
LunaSea wrote: post #803

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, they don't. Firefox represents essentially $0 of revenue for Google because their market share is tiny and rate of adblock usage is high. The only reason Google gives money to Mozilla is because they don't want to get sued for monopoly.

Source for this conjecture?

Firefox market share: 2.17%

Firefox ad block use: 17.81%

Remaining addressable Firefox market share: 1.78%

So essentially peanuts.

Especially since most of said users would have used Google anyway.

Re: End of Japanese community

#818

Post by lopis »

small_scombrus wrote: post #219
lopis wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's the mismstch of expectations that causes good communities to create drama. If this was Google, no one would care, as one expects Google to just do what is best for the business. But with companies like Mozilla we expect a bit better. But the truth is they are barely better and the leadership plays by the same rulebook.

People did used to have decent expectations for Google back when they at least pretended to care about the "Do no evil" tagline

Google burned all that goodwill to fuel their growth. It worked great for them. But now they have none left.

Re: End of Japanese community

#819

Post by jamespo »

LunaSea wrote: post #817
jamespo wrote: post #804

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Source for this conjecture?

Firefox market share: 2.17% Firefox ad block use: 17.81% Remaining addressable Firefox market share: 1.78% So essentially peanuts. Especially since most of said users would have used Google anyway.

Seems to me that percentage is commensurate with the "peanuts" figure Google pay them, vs their annual revenue.

Re: End of Japanese community

#820

Post by BrendanEich »

price wrote: post #716
ecshafer wrote: post #712

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I used to give money to Mozilla foundation, even when I didnt have much. Then I learned none of it goes to firefox. I think if Eich was still in charge there would be more focus on Servo, Rust, etc. making a better browser and less on selling AI and channeling money to absurd NGO causes.

Eich's own company, Brave, is pushing AI plenty hard: the Brave browser promotes a "smart AI assistant" called Leo. That's much more AI integration than I see in Firefox.

It's opt in. The UX can be disabled, and Leo as a whole can be removed via group policy. https://search.brave.com/ask?q=how+to+disable+leo+ux+in+brav...
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