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Steam, Itch.io are pulling ‘porn’ games. Critics say it's a slippery slope

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Re: Steam, Itch.io are pulling ‘porn’ games. Critics say it's a slippery slope

#811

Post by mptest »

SilverElfin wrote: post #305

Regulate Visa and MasterCard and the rest. As utility services, they should not have the ability to ban or deny service to any payment that is not clearly illegal. Or we should create a public alternative with private transactions.

>A public alternative with private transactions

Anyone heard of Monero? Kind of their whole purpose... I know, I know, crypto bad, but when censorship comes for [insert your thing/country here], it kind of becomes obvious why people talked about crypto before btc was six digits. Anyone who knows how tech works and also any history about how authoritarian states work should probably see why crypto got so big in the first place, long before [insert scam that makes otherwise sensible people disregard an entire class of technology here].

Re: Steam, Itch.io are pulling ‘porn’ games. Critics say it's a slippery slope

#812

Post by MBCook »

creer wrote: post #803
MBCook wrote: post #790

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We’re back to chicken and egg. If it’s not a credit card, it’s what debit? Different countries do it differently, so that’s a big hassle for the storefront. Sure you can use a payment processor, but look it’s someone to pressure to prevent you from taking money again. Maybe Crypto? How do people buy that crypto? Probably want to use credit cards. Oops. Or debit. See above. How do you turn your crypto into currency to…

> If your new system interacts with the old system at all there is an attack point. Yes but no. Currently the issue is that these two payment systems - both credit/debit card networks - (1) have the power to decide with impunity, because they have critical mass. And (2) have visibility into who each vendor is and what they are selling. If there is one case of abusing market dominance, this is it - and for all we freq…

The big credit/debit networks can easily justify killing buying crypto.

Terrorism, money laundering, illegal things like drugs, whatever.

If it’s hard enough to get crypto, then it doesn’t matter if it’s technically an option.

You could make it possible to buy this stuff with Fruity Pebbles box tops. They’d have no visibility into that either. And roughly no one would do it.

They just have to make this stuff hard enough. And that’s currently very easy.

Re: Steam, Itch.io are pulling ‘porn’ games. Critics say it's a slippery slope

#813

Post by simplify »

mystraline wrote: post #529
simplify wrote: post #507

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're framing of "sex icky" is a common reductionist approach to remove all humanity from the topic and try and make it purely logical. But that's always been a ridiculous way to argue. The human experience has never been pure reason. A picture of a naked person will have wildly different effects than a picture of a dog, even though you could technically say they're both "just pixels on a screen". Reductionism doesn…

Remember, that the SCOTUS judgement of what obscenity is defined as, is "I'll know it when I see it". I prefer reductionist rather than the current standard of 'whatever 9 fucks think of it'.

Of course you prefer reductionist, because that fits your interest of doing nothing, rather than seeking a solution to the very real destructive consequences of the genre in question. That's what I mean by intellectually lazy.

Porn is way easier to define than obscenity, so I don't see that being a problem.

Re: Steam, Itch.io are pulling ‘porn’ games. Critics say it's a slippery slope

#814

Post by tptacek »

rayiner wrote: post #769
can16358p wrote: post #105

What is wrong with these people who try to block certain content? Don't like porn? Don't buy it. Simple as that. No one, including governments or payment processors, should be in the position to decide whether a platform can sell something or not. I wish there was a payment processor who was brave enough to say a big fucking NO to censorship.

> Don't like porn? Don't buy it. Simple as that Except we live in a society and what goes into it affects all of us. Why does Germany ban Nazi content? Why do governments have minimum wages?

I believe you oppose the banning of Nazi content?

Re: Steam, Itch.io are pulling ‘porn’ games. Critics say it's a slippery slope

#815

Post by simplify »

godelski wrote: post #538
simplify wrote: post #505

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not being 100% effective isn't backfiring. No law is ever absolutely effective. But making something illegal objectively makes it more difficult to obtain, and is certainly effective at reducing access, even if it's not 100%.

You're the only one who asserted a percentage. So allow me to clarify, when I wrote that comment I had no belief that a law need be 100% effective for it to be a useful law. I also believe there's a lot of room between 100% effective and "backfiring". I don't believe this is a binary situation but there's a spectrum (that isn't one dimensional) I hope with this added context that my previous comment will make much mo…

I misread your "It always backfires" comment as making something illegal always backfires, rather than the desire to make things simple always backfires (note that "always" implies 100%). So now I see all you're saying is "be careful", which is fine.

Re: Steam, Itch.io are pulling ‘porn’ games. Critics say it's a slippery slope

#816

Post by mortos »

mptest wrote: post #811
SilverElfin wrote: post #305

Regulate Visa and MasterCard and the rest. As utility services, they should not have the ability to ban or deny service to any payment that is not clearly illegal. Or we should create a public alternative with private transactions.

>A public alternative with private transactions Anyone heard of Monero? Kind of their whole purpose... I know, I know, crypto bad, but when censorship comes for [insert your thing/country here], it kind of becomes obvious why people talked about crypto before btc was six digits. Anyone who knows how tech works and also any history about how authoritarian states work should probably see why crypto got so big in the fi…

Yes I have and I've used it, a website required that rather than BTC and attempting to use tumblers. So far as I know it's private. Transaction fees were low.

I've tried a couple times looking up address/wallet history and of course nothing comes up and every time I have that "oh yeah" moment.

Re: Steam, Itch.io are pulling ‘porn’ games. Critics say it's a slippery slope

#817

Post by danbolt »

wormius wrote: post #799

Just closed my dev acct (only had an old 2015 puzzle game I made, 2 sales, no huge deal personally), but decided to put my 4.57 where my mouth is (no payout, waaaaaaah, cuz 5 dollar minimum). And told them exactly why I am doing so. Money talks, and it's one of the few ways I have to show my opposition. I hope others will do the same. It's sad, because itch is kinda one of the last few places for "indie" as a thing w…

I think you’re in your right to close your account, but itch has a public history[1] of generally being in agreement with you. Leafo talked about feeling a responsibility to host the unique and diverse content the platform holds. [2] This is further exemplified by deindexing/demonetizing adult content rather than swiftly deleting everything in a crass, cover-your-ass, manner.

It strikes me that they had a gun held to their head by a mobster. If itch didn’t comply, they’d lose all their revenue, and we’d lose the website in its entirety, which is much more than just smut.

Pushing back against the payment processors, rather than itch under duress, would have made money talk in the right direction. The difficulty in doing so is reflected in the discussion here.

[1] https://x.com/itchio/status/1478123227394150400 [2] https://youtu.be/9v4ppSSpb0I

Re: Steam, Itch.io are pulling ‘porn’ games. Critics say it's a slippery slope

#818

Post by furgot »

tomhow wrote: post #806
furgot wrote: post #660

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a lazy and intellectually dishonest way of responding to criticism of your ideas. You made a claim and were asked for evidence. It's your choice whether or not you provide it, but you were in fact understood, and to pretend otherwise is dishonest.

> That's a lazy and intellectually dishonest way of responding to criticism of your ideas Please avoid swipes like this in comments on HN. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

You're right. My bad.

Re: Steam, Itch.io are pulling ‘porn’ games. Critics say it's a slippery slope

#819

Post by tomhow »

furgot wrote: post #818
tomhow wrote: post #806

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That's a lazy and intellectually dishonest way of responding to criticism of your ideas Please avoid swipes like this in comments on HN. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

You're right. My bad.

Thanks!

Re: Steam, Itch.io are pulling ‘porn’ games. Critics say it's a slippery slope

#820

Post by numpad0 »

7moritz7 wrote: post #683
doctor_blood wrote: post #562

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That doesn't explain why Visa/Mastercard have gone after written erotica (gumroad, patreon, etc), Japanese manga/doujinshi distributors (DLsite), and video games.

I assume they just decided that the whole industry, even if run legitimately in some cases, has too high of a legal risk and hence don't decide on a case-by-case basis. With how often NSFW content gets reuploaded and the source becoming unclear, they probably see the biggest risk with undetected child porn on regular porn sites. If you are involved with that as a payment processor that's obviously a huge problem.

That's just crazy talk. Doujinshi isn't kitbash collages of free 4chan images. Or is that expectation of readers? If so it makes sense that those things don't come from anywhere Western.
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