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IDF officers ordered to fire at unarmed crowds near Gaza food distribution sites

haaretz.com

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Re: IDF officers ordered to fire at unarmed crowds near Gaza food distribution sites

#811

Post by drysine »

alluro2 wrote: post #177

I visited Israel for a sports seminar some ~10 years ago and met many nice people. I felt sympathetic to their reality of living in an ever-hostile environment from all sides, and struggle to keep their place in the world safe. I admired their resilience and strength. When this Gaza conflict started, I saw how the Israeli protested against their government and demanded peace, so I thought there is a semblance of an e…

>it was their human duty and utmost responsibility to stop this

Do you apply the same standard to Palestinians for not overthrowing Hamas, to Americans for the US being the key enabler of Israel's military operations, to the citizens of any Western country for not adding Israel next to Russia in all their sanction laws? If not, why?

Or maybe we should be careful with assigning collective guilt and not throw stones in glass house?

Re: IDF officers ordered to fire at unarmed crowds near Gaza food distribution sites

#812

Post by Yasuraka »

newsclues wrote: post #470
Yasuraka wrote: post #349

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do warning shots kill over 50 people in a day?

War zone in a dense urban areas where combatants aren’t identified by uniform and are integrated in the civilian population.

So, not warning shots but targeted fire? And is there any evidence of those combatants, amongst all the body cams and drone footage? To be clear, I mean actual combatants, not the IDF definition of "any man of fighting age"(https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_Alon_Shamriz,_Yot...)

Re: IDF officers ordered to fire at unarmed crowds near Gaza food distribution sites

#813

Post by ost-ing »

prmoustache wrote: post #656
ost-ing wrote: post #484

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Be aware that Jews are not native to Palestine, except those that had been living there before the state was founded. Not true, many Semitic Jews who fled from those lands due to persecution went to Europe and North Africa, that includes Ashkenazi and Sephardim Jews. The difficulty I have with your statement is akin to denying a white, blue eyed aboriginal in Australia their heritage to the land just because one of…

Palestinians are genetically closer to the jews that populated those lands centuries ago. The reality is palestinians ancestors were mostly jews who decided to convert to islam. Denying their rights to continue living there is absurd. The state of Israel is just another example of euro white colonialism.

Im not saying that any of this excuses the nationalist movement Israel is today, im just stating a fact that semitic descendants in Europe have heritage to those lands. Just because someone appears white and blue-eyed doesn't necessarily negate that.

Judaism is an ethno-religion, so while some people may have no connection to semitic people, others will have a closer connection and its discriminatory to simply say “they are not native” which my original post was critical of.

Re: IDF officers ordered to fire at unarmed crowds near Gaza food distribution sites

#814

Post by Voultapher »

throwaway3060 wrote: post #751
Voultapher wrote: post #602

If Russia were to win the war and a Ukrainian underground would launch "guerrilla attacks" against Russia, they would be lauded as heros. Now here we have a somewhat similar story, of a foreign invader that displaced the local people not too long ago and a remaining native opposition. There is no version of this that will end up with the Palestinians getting a fair outcome. I've calling this a genocide quite early on…

This scenario already played out before in history; some people may believe those groups to have been heroes, but most can recognize that fighting in the name of independence did not make those groups any less guilty of committing atrocities against civilians. At the same time, that doesn't take away today from the people fighting for freedom legitimately. If anything, those groups hurt their cause in the long-run, a…

Just curious what does fighting for freedom legitimately look like in this context for you?

> For Fanon in The Wretched of the Earth, the colonizer's presence in Algeria is based on sheer military strength. Any resistance to this strength must also be of a violent nature because it is the only "language" the colonizer speaks. [1]

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frantz_Fanon

Re: IDF officers ordered to fire at unarmed crowds near Gaza food distribution sites

#815

Post by ath3nd »

YZF wrote: post #806
Hikikomori wrote: post #710

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We don't know the facts. Like we didn't do with the buried ambulances and journalists like Shireen Akleh. It didn't happen. We didn't do it. If it happened Hamas did it. If we did it they deserved it. Oh it's on video, our bad, we did an oopsie. Countless of cases like this.

I agree these don't all look good but you're lumping different things under the same umbrella. And you're blaming the victim. If Hamas didn't attack Israel on Oct 7th then there wouldn't be Israeli soldiers in Gaza killing and getting killed and there wouldn't be issues with ambulances. It doesn't help that Hamas uses ambulances and that its combatants don't wear uniforms and rely on being able to pass as civilians a…

[flagged]

Re: IDF officers ordered to fire at unarmed crowds near Gaza food distribution sites

#816

Post by blackqueeriroh »

watwut wrote: post #430
avip wrote: post #302

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are we talking about the expansion out of Lebanon in 2000 or the expansion out of Gaza in 2005?

We are talking about all settlements into territory that was not Israel's regardless of the year. The settlements like that are internationally illegal precisely because they are clear attempt to use civilian population as shields in a land takeover.

What territory wasn’t Israel’s? And when? And at what point?

Re: IDF officers ordered to fire at unarmed crowds near Gaza food distribution sites

#817

Post by neepi »

notjulianjaynes wrote: post #738
neepi wrote: post #659

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't like getting involved in political threads but on this I have to. All information presented is mostly unverified testimony printed verbatim by the press from untrustworthy sources on both sides. It's difficult to tell what is fact and what is not. A lot of early reports in this war turned out to be false information and the rush to immediate news notification rather than quality journalism means that the head…

>(I wrote an extensive suite of software to track this) Interesting. . . do you have a page for the project or anything?

No it’s internally used. Think of it like archive.ph but with text extraction and a diff like interface over the text.

Re: IDF officers ordered to fire at unarmed crowds near Gaza food distribution sites

#818

Post by neepi »

more_corn wrote: post #780
neepi wrote: post #659

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't like getting involved in political threads but on this I have to. All information presented is mostly unverified testimony printed verbatim by the press from untrustworthy sources on both sides. It's difficult to tell what is fact and what is not. A lot of early reports in this war turned out to be false information and the rush to immediate news notification rather than quality journalism means that the head…

Sorry, but the killing of unarmed civilians seeking aid has been reported half a dozen times by many different outlets. The IDF denials are getting quite absurd. The only one suffering from disinformation is you.

I haven’t made a point either way. Please don’t quote me on things I haven’t said. That is morally and intellectually dishonest.

Re: IDF officers ordered to fire at unarmed crowds near Gaza food distribution sites

#819

Post by neepi »

quietbritishjim wrote: post #686
neepi wrote: post #659

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't like getting involved in political threads but on this I have to. All information presented is mostly unverified testimony printed verbatim by the press from untrustworthy sources on both sides. It's difficult to tell what is fact and what is not. A lot of early reports in this war turned out to be false information and the rush to immediate news notification rather than quality journalism means that the head…

The information is unverified because Israel does not allow journalists into Gaza.

[flagged]

Re: IDF officers ordered to fire at unarmed crowds near Gaza food distribution sites

#820

Post by luckylion »

Aeolun wrote: post #708
YZF wrote: post #688

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As another Jewish Israeli I agree this is concerning. I do want you to consider the context here on Hacker News though. You and me have context, we understand the history, we understand at least something about wars and how they are fought. Most people here do not. The problem isn't whether firing on civilians with no reason when they come to get food is wrong or right. We all know it's wrong. The soldiers in Gaza kn…

> The entire strategy of Israel's opponents in the middle east is to engage in war crimes. I think war crimes are a lot more acceptable/understandable if they’re the only way you even potentially have a chance to get back at your agressors. Nobody blames the resistance during the Nazi occupation for what they did. Israel is very much not in a position they need to perpetrate war crimes to win the war. They have alrea…

> Nobody blames the resistance during the Nazi occupation for what they did.

Because the Nazis lost. Had the Nazis won, alternative history and all that, the argument would probably be the other way around, how, faced with overwhelmingly strong enemies, they "had to" create death camps to "get back" at their aggressors.

Not a great argument, I think.

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