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A $20k American-made electric pickup with no paint, no stereo, no screen

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Re: A $20k American-made electric pickup with no paint, no stereo, no screen

#811

Post by joshjob42 »

sebmellen wrote: post #781
Animats wrote: post #771

The US is falling way behind in electric vehicles. If BYD could sell in the US, the US auto industry would be crushed.[1] What went wrong is that 1) Tesla never made a low-end vehicle, despite announcements, and 2) all the other US manufacturers treated electric as a premium product, resulting in the overpowered electric Hummer 2 and F-150 pickups with high price tags. The only US electric vehicle with comparable pri…

The Chevy Spark EV is an incredible vehicle and has been my around town go kart for the past 7 years. Cost me $11k (!!) as an off lease purchase.

I adored my Spark EV til it sadly died (fairly scarily, on a highway access road) one day. Chevy was never able to repair it and ultimately gave me a nice payout after paying for a rental for me for nearly a year.

But if you sold the Spark EV for 20k today with like 120mi of range, it would be perfect and would satisfy all my needs 99% of the time. Even mine (13k all in) was great here in LA with ~60mi of range. I loved how small and easy to park it was without feeling cramped to me at all. If it had CarPlay I'd've said it was the perfect car haha.

It's a shame they haven't rebooted it yet as a pure EV. It's right there in the name!

Re: A $20k American-made electric pickup with no paint, no stereo, no screen

#812

Post by voidfunc »

DidYaWipe wrote: post #796
Animats wrote: post #771

The US is falling way behind in electric vehicles. If BYD could sell in the US, the US auto industry would be crushed.[1] What went wrong is that 1) Tesla never made a low-end vehicle, despite announcements, and 2) all the other US manufacturers treated electric as a premium product, resulting in the overpowered electric Hummer 2 and F-150 pickups with high price tags. The only US electric vehicle with comparable pri…

What went wrong is that the federal government didn't build or legislate a national charging infrastructure to match the scale of the interstate highway system. They could have strong-armed the states into it with a combination of funding the construction and the way they mandated the 21 drinking age: by threatening to withhold highway funds.

> They could have strong-armed the states into it with a combination of funding the construction and the way they mandated the 21 drinking age: by threatening to withhold highway funds.

Yea let's give the federal government more power. That's going so well right now.

Re: A $20k American-made electric pickup with no paint, no stereo, no screen

#813

Post by JimBlackwood »

Animats wrote: post #804
loufe wrote: post #788

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you mean to say sodium batteries instead of lithium in your "BYD did it" sentence?

No. Five years ago BYD introduced their "blade battery", which is a lithium iron phosphate battery built up of plate-like "blades" in rectangular casings.[1] Wh/L is about the same as lithium ion, Wh/Kg is not as good, and Wh/$ is better. It will survive the "nail test" and does not not go into thermal runaway. Today, most of BYD's products use this technology. It's been improved to handle higher charging rates. Seem…

> Like these.[3] BYD has the Yangwang U8, a big off-road SUV comparable to the Rivian, and the Yangwang U9, a "hypercar".

I really did not expect to open this and have it be presented by Kryten! Fun surprise! :)

Re: A $20k American-made electric pickup with no paint, no stereo, no screen

#815

Post by paulajohnson »

This has much the same design philosophy as the original Land Rover: tough, reliable, simple and maintainable. It was originally developed as the UK answer to the Jeep, but rapidly became the standard utility vehicle for anyone with an outdoor off road job. Especially farmers. Something like two thirds of all Land Rovers ever made are still in use.

This might well go the same way.

Re: A $20k American-made electric pickup with no paint, no stereo, no screen

#816

Post by derektank »

Panzer04 wrote: post #802
Animats wrote: post #771

The US is falling way behind in electric vehicles. If BYD could sell in the US, the US auto industry would be crushed.[1] What went wrong is that 1) Tesla never made a low-end vehicle, despite announcements, and 2) all the other US manufacturers treated electric as a premium product, resulting in the overpowered electric Hummer 2 and F-150 pickups with high price tags. The only US electric vehicle with comparable pri…

I don't really see how any car company can "fall behind" in EV. Fundamentally, IMO, EVs are such a simple concept mechanically that any company capable of building a conventional ICE vehicle can build an EV. It's glib to say that - obviously there's a lot of unsaid complexity (battery back cooling, fitting into the frame, and so on), but the actual drivetrain component is just so simple. That EVs are still expensive…

Even if there were no improvements to be had in the vehicle itself, improvements in manufacturing processes determine how expensive the product is and thus how competitively priced the vehicle can be. Falling behind on price means falling behind on market share which means falling behind on efficiencies of scale which often means going out of business or at best becoming a niche producer.

Honda and Toyota weren't able to outcompete US manufacturers in the 1980s by offering higher performance vehicles but by delivering similar quality products at lower prices by making use of superior production techniques like Lean and JIT inventory management.

Re: A $20k American-made electric pickup with no paint, no stereo, no screen

#817

Post by jmpman »

IceHegel wrote: post #808
Animats wrote: post #771

The US is falling way behind in electric vehicles. If BYD could sell in the US, the US auto industry would be crushed.[1] What went wrong is that 1) Tesla never made a low-end vehicle, despite announcements, and 2) all the other US manufacturers treated electric as a premium product, resulting in the overpowered electric Hummer 2 and F-150 pickups with high price tags. The only US electric vehicle with comparable pri…

I think one of the biggest problems in the United States is the misallocation of ambitious people. The highly educated and ambitious people see finance, government, tech, and corporate executive tracks, as the way to convert their energies into social status. Even startups these days seem to be a case of too many chiefs, not enough Indians.

When Elon gets excited about displacing his engineers on a whim with H1Bs, why would any highly educated ambitious person want to work for Tesla?

Re: A $20k American-made electric pickup with no paint, no stereo, no screen

#818

Post by cenamus »

mft_ wrote: post #665
zx10rse wrote: post #622

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Automotive industry is one of the biggest scams on planet earth. One of my favorite cases recently is how Suzuki Jimny is banned in Europe and US because of emission standards allegedly, so the little Jimny is emitting 146g/km but somehow there is no problem to buy a G-Class that is emitting 358g/km oh and surprise surprise Mercedes are going to release a smaller more affordable G-Class [1]. [1] - https://www.motortr…

Manufacturers must hit a level of CO2 emissions on average across their whole fleet. As such, Suzuki is choosing to discontinue the Jimny because of the tougher fleet average targets starting in 2025. Overall you’re right that it’s a bit of a fix; Mercedes ‘pools’ its emissions with other manufacturers/brands. It currently pools with Smart, but may also pool with Volvo/Polestar? [0] It’s such an obvious approach to ‘…

A last effort to extend the many favors granted to the dying german auto industry

Re: A $20k American-made electric pickup with no paint, no stereo, no screen

#819

Post by constantcrying »

It is an interesting idea, but there is obviously a lot which can go wrong here.

Can you actually build an EV like that, conforming to all regulations, with significant cost reduction? VW is currently trying to build a 20k EV, which seem extremely difficult in Europe and US labor costs are probably higher. The Dacia EVs (which seem closest in concept to a pickup) suffer from many downsides, to make low prices happen.

Do people actually want less screens or do they just say that?

Is customization a road to profitability? VWs ID.1 concept has a similar idea to lower entry price, by making several upgrades user installable, so they can be bought over time.

This is obviously a US only car and the US is very lacking in EV adoption. Will this sell in significant numbers?

Can you actually make it cheaply? Rivian is notoriously unprofitable and making cheap cars is, far, far harder than making expensive cars.

Re: A $20k American-made electric pickup with no paint, no stereo, no screen

#820

Post by constantcrying »

Panzer04 wrote: post #802
Animats wrote: post #771

The US is falling way behind in electric vehicles. If BYD could sell in the US, the US auto industry would be crushed.[1] What went wrong is that 1) Tesla never made a low-end vehicle, despite announcements, and 2) all the other US manufacturers treated electric as a premium product, resulting in the overpowered electric Hummer 2 and F-150 pickups with high price tags. The only US electric vehicle with comparable pri…

I don't really see how any car company can "fall behind" in EV. Fundamentally, IMO, EVs are such a simple concept mechanically that any company capable of building a conventional ICE vehicle can build an EV. It's glib to say that - obviously there's a lot of unsaid complexity (battery back cooling, fitting into the frame, and so on), but the actual drivetrain component is just so simple. That EVs are still expensive…

Are you serious? EVs have been the biggest disruption in the auto industry. It has created major corporations who made the attempts of traditional manufacturers seem obsolete.

VW Group and Stellantis totally failed to compete with Chinese manufacturers and were driven out of the Chinese EV market almost entirely. Competition is extremely fierce.

>That EVs are still expensive

Look up what they cost in China.

>So long as production is limited EVs will remain a luxury product

Around 50% of new sales in China. Not "luxury" in any meaningful way.

The issue is that EVs do not differentiate themselves by power train. They differentiate themselves by battery and software.

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