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Trump exempts phones, computers, chips from ‘reciprocal’ tariffs

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Re: Trump exempts phones, computers, chips from ‘reciprocal’ tariffs

#811

Post by Balgair »

_heimdall wrote: post #793
__s wrote: post #790

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Their point is that without concerted effort the elected officials will follow Trump as long as elections in red states align with Trump's political funding > Congress has a duty to uphold the constitution, not to play political money games Those political money games will filter out opposition in congress as long as Trump is able to have yes men elected into congress

Sure, and if both of those problems are fundamentally just how politics is going to work now we'd be better off throwing out the system entirely and starting fresh. Short of that, we need voters electing based on ideals and principles and we need those elected to actually follow the ideals and principles that got them elected.

Yeah, the issue is one of incentives.

For all politicians, their incentive is to get (re)elected. That's pretty much part of the definition. The ones that follow that incentive are going to be (re)elected, those that don't aren't going to get into office.

But, if you really do believe in democracy, then you have to actually trust the voters here. If you're thinking that they are just rubes and are easily lead around, then well, you don't really believe in democracy, I think [0]. Whatever you think about Donny and his methods and ideas, we've had 10 years of the guy in politics. The voters (in the system we have) were as well informed as you could possibly expect them to be. They wanted him and everything about him, the results were very clear.

Ancient Greece is a good model here with it's many cities and systems. Democracies will often choose the wolf to escape the vultures. It's just part of how humans work. We can all wish that we live in a different place and a different time with different people, but we don't. We're here and now. And our fellow voters in the system we have, they want all of this.

Look, I'm with you, I think that the voters were very dumb here. But they have to find out one way or another and get their comeuppance. There is no feasible other way. We're going to get Donny in all his glory, good and hard.

[0] yes yes, we don't have a democracy, we have a constitutional republic and blah blah blah. We've all heard it a hundred times.

Re: Trump exempts phones, computers, chips from ‘reciprocal’ tariffs

#812

Post by zaptrem »

pstuart wrote: post #791
erkt wrote: post #756

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point is to inflict cost to create incentive for domestic production. Obviously the inconsistency on tariffs undermines this position but the pandemic made it very clear that there are domestic security implications for not having important products produced state side. Its not like the $500 cost of a saline bag has anything to do with its production cost. It seems credit liquidity and confidence in long term pro…

The point is to replace income taxes with tariffs. Domestic production is "desired" but this is not how to rebuild domestic production capability.

So we’d replace income tax with a regressive tax on consumption

Re: Trump exempts phones, computers, chips from ‘reciprocal’ tariffs

#813

Post by pfannkuchen »

timeon wrote: post #573
pfannkuchen wrote: post #511

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If we translate this into negotiating at a used car dealership, I don’t think it would look that different. Of course everyone is going to project strength in public communications. Doing otherwise would put them in a worse negotiating position. You have to make your opponent think you’ll do something drastic, or else they won’t budge. So you have everyone yelling about how they’re doing something drastic. Just like…

> more like the 1800s than the 2020s No need to go that far. 1970s would suffice.

Can you tell me more about what you mean here? I feel like world wars were the transition point between realism and “liberal order” ideology. I’m curious what change you see happening where the transition point is 1970s.

Re: Trump exempts phones, computers, chips from ‘reciprocal’ tariffs

#814

Post by t-writescode »

gnarlynarwhal42 wrote: post #798
t-writescode wrote: post #478

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some of the biggest boons to small business would be universal healthcare and that's just ... you know, never going to happen under a Republican president (or a Democrat, for that matter). It would greatly ease the burden of employing others in small businesses and it would greatly increase the safety net of would-be entrepreneurs. It would also improve works-rights-as-capitalism because you could more easily quit ab…

I've always disagreed with single-payer/universal/govt-supplied healthcare for various reasons, but hadn't thought about this angle. Thank you for bringing this up

I'm happy to help someone see a different perspective on things!

Re: Trump exempts phones, computers, chips from ‘reciprocal’ tariffs

#815

Post by t-writescode »

keybored wrote: post #662
archagon wrote: post #586

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s a common misconception that Republicans are pro-business. They loathe small business and love big business. If everyone could just be indentured to one of a dozen mega-conglomerates, that would be their perfect world.

That’s the same thing as being pro-business. Big business out-competes small businesses again and again. The idea of smol business being viable (see: this whole thread) is just the marketing front.

Well, it's also a US- vs the rest of the world thing. Big businesses destroying local economies, local health, local taxes, etc, is a very American problem. See [0] for a study on the topic.

[0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r7-e_yhEzIw "These Ugly Big Box Stores are Literally Bankrupting Cities" - Not Just Bikes

Re: Trump exempts phones, computers, chips from ‘reciprocal’ tariffs

#816

Post by jonplackett »

arandomusername wrote: post #726
jonplackett wrote: post #546

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just a good time to remember that the same guy who thinks tariffs are a good idea is the guy who stood at a podium during Covid next to the world’s leading expert and suggested injecting bleach into Covid patients was a good idea. And was caught on mic saying he likes to grope women. I would not say anyone is ‘automatically’ questioning Trump’s character or intelligence. There is plenty of evidence he has neither.

You really are proving that user right, considering Trump never suggested injecting bleach.

I beg to differ. Quote from Trump:

“I see the disinfectant that knocks it out in a minute ... is there a way we can do something like that by injection inside, or almost a cleaning?"

"Because you see it gets inside the lungs and it does a tremendous number on the lungs, so it would be interesting to check that”

https://www.axios.com/2022/04/26/birx-calls-trump-disinfecta...

Edit: found the actual video. Enjoy!

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zicGxU5MfwE&pp=0gcJCdgAo7VqN5t...

The guy is a full on moron who thinks he is a full on genius.

Re: Trump exempts phones, computers, chips from ‘reciprocal’ tariffs

#817

Post by jijijijij »

SpicyLemonZest wrote: post #785
jijijijij wrote: post #754

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FYI: I am not American. I feel Fremdscham, but the transitive relation is implied in my comment. Politicians in my country are just as corrupt (e.g. Friedrich Merz doing marketing and legislative favors for McDonalds), but for the plurality of our political system, they still have to act decent to some degree. For now. There is another quality to what's happening in America right now. I can only explain the things Tr…

I want to be careful about how I frame this, because I don't want to make it sound like Trump or AfD don't have agency and can't be held responsible for their own actions. But if you're curious what it is that enabled both cults, the answer is pretty clear: there's significant popular demand for harsh immigration restrictions, and in much of the West only crazy far-right parties are willing to listen to it. The Danis…

No.

Can't speak for the US, but in Germany immigration is not the problem they make it out to be, but one that is propped up as a scapegoat. You presume the people's demand here are based in reasonable distress, when really it's not. Or rather it's not attributed correctly. Stats don't support it, proposed solutions are not able to resolve it. In particular the AfD has no actual answers for anything. Their "politics" is arbitrary outrage and evidently they get sponsored by Russia, favored by platform owners and spin doctors like Musk. German intelligence agencies are investigating Russia's involvement in recent attacks in Germany. The AfD's role is destabilization and it's working.

The topic is not driven by actual exposure. This is clearly evident when you look at voting patterns. In places where you are the most likely to have contact with immigrants right-wing populists are the least successful and vice versa. Compare recent car attacks by islamist and neonazi motivated perpetrators. There is a massive distortion in media coverage.

I absolutely do not accept throwing anyone under the bus just to make the mob happy. Not immigrants, not women, not trans people. Sorry, but it's fucking degenerated and vile to suggest this as acceptable sacrifice. Every human deserves basic rights, due process and life in dignity. Look what they are cheering for in the US at the moment. Disinformation fueled hatred is not something to make compromises with as a civilized person.

The actual, but occult distress all people feel comes from economic erosion and ideological decay. Don't get me wrong, immigration isn't all bueno, but it's blown out of proportion. Rent, financial security, food, prosperity and self-efficacy. No politician is addressing that. We are by far not out of options to address the real issues of the country.

Why are you not advocating for addressing those?

Re: Trump exempts phones, computers, chips from ‘reciprocal’ tariffs

#818

Post by YZF »

3vidence wrote: post #747
YZF wrote: post #554

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You still often have one man with all the power in a parliamentary system. The Prime Minister. Take Canada as an example. JT had basically complete power over government. It's as rate for the prime minister party or coalition to go against him as it is for a president in the US to be impeached. I think the trick has to be to just get better people into those positions. Which means better people need to have some ince…

There really isn't need to share misinformation on HN. The PM has slight larger responsibility the a regular MP. I'm not a big fan of JTs policies over the years but they were done via parliamentary support.

I wasn't really going after a political angle or the elections.

PMs in Canada wield a ton of power and AFAIK are rarely removed. I'm not sure what exactly you consider to be misinformation here. It's extremely rare for members of parliament to vote against their party.

Another example I can think of is Israel where the prime minister yields a ton of power.

I might be wrong but I think the use of the Emergencies Act was not approved in Parliament? How about the weapons embargo on Israel?

Re: Trump exempts phones, computers, chips from ‘reciprocal’ tariffs

#819

Post by atomicnumber3 »

ysofunny wrote: post #428
atomicnumber3 wrote: post #402

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Racism is a tool wielded by the owner class to divide workers as they wage class warfare against them. The grassroots development of class consciousness and a united working class is our only way out of this.

if you were in Russia in the late XIX century then yes but history learns (this is also why we cannot ever have another revolutionary hero, nor another french revolution) so no. class consciousness and a united "working class" will not help us anymore. a lot has changed since those ideas made sense

Like what?

Re: Trump exempts phones, computers, chips from ‘reciprocal’ tariffs

#820

Post by Amezarak »

Neonlicht wrote: post #806
Amezarak wrote: post #789

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Manufacturing employment plummeted in the US after the 90s. https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/manemp Lots of people remember the 80s and 90s being better times with quality manufacturing employment without romanticizing the past. To this day multiples of the “information” sector are employed in US manufacturing.

People remember those days because the Republicans hadn't destroyed trade unions and the pension system yet.

We can agree unions should be stronger, but union jobs in America cannot compete with nonunion much cheaper labor in other countries. If you have free trade and zero Republicans the same thing happens. If the jobs go away the union doesn’t matter. That’s why the unions consistently lobbied against NAFTA, the WTO, etc.

I’m actually not even sure what specific labor law changes you could blame that on. Clinton was running the show in the 90s, and I don’t recall any big union busting under Bush, whatever else might be said of him.

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