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TSMC expected to announce $100B investment in U.S.

wsj.com

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Re: TSMC expected to announce $100B investment in U.S.

#811

Post by skyyler »

bentt wrote: post #803
orthecreedence wrote: post #783

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm so happy to live in the US, a country without ceaseless propaganda about how our way of life is the best and our democracy is the best and our freedom is the only way and there is no alternative to unfettered capitalism.

I mean on one hand we can do better but on the other, last I checked there's not been a time where citizens were hauled off to prison in the US for disparaging capitalism. Closest we came was the red scare in the 50s and that was tame in comparison to what Stalin and Mao and Pol Pot and Castro and Ho Chi Minh and (do I need to keep going?) put their subjects through.

>there's not been a time where citizens were hauled off to prison in the US for disparaging capitalism

There is a time where American citizens are hauled off to prison to do slave labour. That time is right now.

Re: TSMC expected to announce $100B investment in U.S.

#812

Post by bentt »

skyyler wrote: post #811
bentt wrote: post #803

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean on one hand we can do better but on the other, last I checked there's not been a time where citizens were hauled off to prison in the US for disparaging capitalism. Closest we came was the red scare in the 50s and that was tame in comparison to what Stalin and Mao and Pol Pot and Castro and Ho Chi Minh and (do I need to keep going?) put their subjects through.

>there's not been a time where citizens were hauled off to prison in the US for disparaging capitalism There is a time where American citizens are hauled off to prison to do slave labour. That time is right now.

For disparaging capitalism?

Re: TSMC expected to announce $100B investment in U.S.

#813

Post by wing-_-nuts »

tnt128 wrote: post #314

The idea that the US protects Taiwan from a possible Chinese invasion over chips is one of those things that sounds believable but really isn't going to happen. From China’s perspective, the cost of war is much higher than the cost of developing these chips themselves. In the worst-case scenario, they would be 2-3 years behind the cutting edge, which is not mission-critical. Most electronics (civilian or military) do…

Honestly, the idea that the US would spill American blood and treasure to defend Taiwan has kind of sailed into the sunset with our current administration. It is very much America 1st, 2nd and 3rd. If Taiwan wishes to stay independent, they need to be able to defense themselves alone because the current admin will not probably not lift a finger if current events are any measure.

Re: TSMC expected to announce $100B investment in U.S.

#815

Post by Lerc »

_t9ow wrote: post #792
borsecplata wrote: post #744

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not everything is for sale, especially at this ridiculous price. Why would you think the taiwanese people are so poor that they would all betray their country for 100k?

> the taiwanese people are so poor that they would all betray their country for 100k? You'd be surprised. I'm not saying that all of them (or even most of them) will accept the payment, but there have been multiple cases of espionage committed by Taiwanese military personnel for extremely trifling amounts of monetary reward from the Chinese. Here's just one example: https://www.worldjournal.com/wj/story/121222/857220…

There are two significant points to make about instances like this.

Finding someone who meets Criteria X is a long way from finding either a Majority or even just enough of a minority to make a difference.

When people believe their action will not make a difference, they pay less heed to the consequences of their actions. People will take money to do things if they don't think it will change much.

There are probably plenty of gun runners who sell guns to rebels that would should they succeed in their rebellion it would be detrimental to the gun-running business. Nevertheless they would happily sell them guns to them while they think the rebellion is doomed.

It's not always that simple though. Significant strategic decisions can involve projecting ineffectiveness to obtain the support of those who do not want you to be effective. Because of this, people have committed betrayals that have turned out to be far more significant than they imagined. I suspect this happens more often in fiction than real life, but fiction more frequently focuses on the significant. Real life produces the significant by having millions with the one in a million chance of being significant.

Re: TSMC expected to announce $100B investment in U.S.

#816

Post by SV_BubbleTime »

gman83 wrote: post #315
yo_yo_yo-yo wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Now that I’ve calmed down a bit, I agree with your assessment. The optics game is so important, but Taiwan is in an impossible situation. If I were China, I would give them relative economic independence if they limit advanced process silicon to other countries and let Huawei and others monopolize the advanced nodes. The US at present does not appear to be a dependable partner.

China broke promises about "One country, two systems" in Hong Kong, so I don't think Taiwan can count on any promises made there either.

I old enough remember morons celebrating Taiwan’s “independence” from England. Yea… about that though. Thing everyone logical knew would happen, happened.

Re: TSMC expected to announce $100B investment in U.S.

#817

Post by wnevets »

thereddaikon wrote: post #804
wnevets wrote: post #671

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> China doesn't want Taiwan for TSMC. They want Taiwan because they see them as a rebellious province. In their mind, the Chinese civil war never ended and that island is the last bastion of the Kuomintang. One way I've heard it described in a way that is easier for Americans to understand is; Imagine at the end of the American Civil War, a confederate army retreated to an island like Cuba or Hawaii, they took it ove…

Its an imperfect analogy but I'm trying to illustrate an idea in a more relatable way. If you pick at the details it will fall apart.

I'm trying to help further the analogy by pointing out the fact decades prior to TSMC existing Mao Zedong used forced in an attempt to take Taiwan.

Re: TSMC expected to announce $100B investment in U.S.

#818

Post by jppope »

onlyrealcuzzo wrote: post #763
thereddaikon wrote: post #611

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China doesn't want Taiwan for TSMC. They want Taiwan because they see them as a rebellious province. In their mind, the Chinese civil war never ended and that island is the last bastion of the Kuomintang. One way I've heard it described in a way that is easier for Americans to understand is; Imagine at the end of the American Civil War, a confederate army retreated to an island like Cuba or Hawaii, they took it over…

> They want Taiwan because they see them as a rebellious province. We can argue about what the exact desire is - there's 100M people in the CCP - we'll probably never know an exact answer. The important thing is - China is willing to spend a LOT more money to take Taiwan than it is economically worth. So this idea that 1) China wants Taiwan for chips, 2) War would cost more than chips, 3) Therefore, Taiwan is logical…

> "They're fighting that war because a bunch of dick bags got together in a room and decided it was expedient for them for millions of people to lose their lives."

Pretty sure Putin needs to start wars, conflicts, terrorist events to maintain political stability. That is to say, he can't lose power because they'll kill him.

Re: TSMC expected to announce $100B investment in U.S.

#819

Post by bloppe »

1oooqooq wrote: post #716
bloppe wrote: post #707

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's our best case scenario.

it's not if i got the reference i think this was hinting at. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trump_Steaks

Relatively speaking, that's still by far the best case scenario.

We now live in a world of "how bad will it get".

Re: TSMC expected to announce $100B investment in U.S.

#820

Post by anon291 »

world2vec wrote: post #52

Might be a silly question but considering the tensions between US and EU right now... What would happen to all these deals if ASML was was not allowed to sell their machines to US companies? I don't know enough to even speculate on these wild scenarios

If that realistically happened, America would likely seize ASML assets in the United States and continue manufacture.

I'm not entirely sure of the supply chain, but I'm fairly certain that ASML has significant operations and manufacturing in the United States. I'm in Portland and ASML has a large office here for obvious reasons.

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