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Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting

bbc.com

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Re: Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting

#811

Post by 127 »

GMoromisato wrote: post #270

I would like to know what the alternatives are. None that I can think of are palatable: 1. Support Ukraine enough so that Russia doesn't take too much more territory, but not enough for Russia to feel threatened and escalate the war. This was the Biden plan and it sounds like what Europe wants. I just don't see how this ends the war. Is this just buying time for someone to depose Putin? 2. Support Ukraine enough so i…

If Ukraine received twice the military aid, they would have already won. Drip feeding aid was worst of all worlds, outside allying with Russia. Both US and Europe got deterred by Putin's nuclear threats. Which means logically next step for Europe is drastically increase their nuclear stockpile.

Re: Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting

#812

Post by the_clarence »

Nition wrote: post #261

I normally avoid commenting on politics entirely but I feel compelled to comment here. I'm sure anyone who's ever been bullied in their life will feel exactly what's happening in that video clip. Two big kids, confident in their position and backing each other up, gang up on the outsider. Did they ever really want to make a deal at all? Absolutely infuriating and saddening to watch.

It's more than that. Some people in the audience started harassing Zelensky as well for not wearing a suit. It's just sad how the US has given up on diplomacy thinking that the worldstage is a businness as usual

Re: Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting

#813

Post by up2isomorphism »

jmward01 wrote: post #506

US policy is now one of forcing the world into a zero sum game and it is a shame because the world isn't zero sum. This means the world will loose the gains from friendship and cooperation that increase the overall outcome for everyone. It is like living in a city where crime is expected so everyone puts up iron bars on their windows and the parks are all locked-down nightmares. When there is trust and cooperation yo…

[flagged]

Re: Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting

#816

Post by userbinator »

lifeisstillgood wrote: post #127

I got this weird dissonance - like this was a science from a TV show about the White House, because no-one, I mean no-one would ever do that inpublic. Apart from common courtesy, even basic management training says praise in public, criticise in private. Just doing this in front of the world’s media … it’s hard to understand

I think it's an act. They're putting on a show for Putin.

There's that old saying about best friends and worst enemies...

Re: Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting

#818

Post by 29athrowaway »

jmward01 wrote: post #506

US policy is now one of forcing the world into a zero sum game and it is a shame because the world isn't zero sum. This means the world will loose the gains from friendship and cooperation that increase the overall outcome for everyone. It is like living in a city where crime is expected so everyone puts up iron bars on their windows and the parks are all locked-down nightmares. When there is trust and cooperation yo…

Territorial disputes, when the negotiation terms involve only territorial changes is a zero-sum game. It stops being a zero-sum game once you add more terms.

A good example of an effective peace treaty was the Camp David accords that put an end to the Yom Kippur war of 1973. That used interest based bargaining instead of distributive bargaining.

The outcome that Russia is interested in this conflict is:

- annexing territory (Crimea, Donetsk, Luhansk, etc)

- help Ukraine facilitate the international recognition of that annexation

- Ukraine should not join NATO (this makes another invasion viable in the future)

In this deal, Ukraine gets:

- a ceasefire

- some peacekeeping help

These terms are pretty mediocre for Ukraine. This administration seems to be inclined to think that's the best Ukraine can get and they should take the offer to prevent further losses.

Oblasts like Crimea, Donetsk, Luhansk, etc. have a high percentage of ethnic Russians living there. That would remain a barrier for Ukraine to achieve peace even if Russians retreat to pre-2014 borders. Nobody knows exactly what percentage of Russians live there because the last census was long time ago.

Re: Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting

#820

Post by bashback »

TriangleEdge wrote: post #573

Maybe dumb question, but I asked ChatGPT search and didn't get a straight answer, so: Why is Russia at war with Ukraine? ChatGPT tells me it's because of "western alignment". Trump told reporters 1m people died. Seems a bit excessive to me for political ideas.. I'd have an easier time believing it's a resource conflict or some oil field being liberated or wtv.

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