Israel, Hamas reach ceasefire deal to end 15 months of war in Gaza • Hacker News Board

Re: Israel, Hamas reach ceasefire deal to end 15 months of war in Gaza

#811

Post by weatherlite » Thu, Jan 16, 2025, 1:47 PM UTC

xg15 wrote: post #21

Everything else aside, this is an absolutely fantastic development and I really hope the ceasefire holds and all hostages are released. I just fear this will cause western media and politicians to and declare the crisis to be over (after it had began on Oct. 7, of course absolutely out of the blue and without any context...) and go back to pretending everything is back to normal. Never mind that Gaza is still in ruin…

> And never mind that Israel still has a fundamentalist, authoritarian government that is actively at work undermining democratic structures and civil rights even inside the state

And never mind that Hamas is still the same old non compromising, cut throat, maximalist and some would say genocidal terrorist organization it has always been. You forgot to mention that. The PLO is only slightly better.

Re: Israel, Hamas reach ceasefire deal to end 15 months of war in Gaza

#812

Post by dotancohen » Thu, Jan 16, 2025, 1:48 PM UTC

ignoramous wrote: post #646

aprilthird2021 wrote: post #625

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I went to school with some first generation Palestinians just 5-ish years ago. One of them had to miss an entire quarter because Israel just wouldn't allow him to leave. He has never been back to Palestine since then because another detainment or missed visa problem, etc. would derail his career.

> One of them had to miss an entire quarter because Israel just wouldn't allow him to leave Terrible. Even in the current ceasefire terms, there's an explicit provision to have Israel agree to let the injured leave for treatment to neighbouring countries and be allowed to come back to the Strip. Despite arguments to contrary, I can see why some claim it is an open-air prison .

A UN delegate first referred to the Gaza strip as an open air prison in 1956, while still under Egyptian control.

That aspect of Gaza was in place long before Israel had anything to do with the strip.

Re: Israel, Hamas reach ceasefire deal to end 15 months of war in Gaza

#813

Post by awaywithcovid » Thu, Jan 16, 2025, 1:48 PM UTC

shprd wrote: post #758

awaywithcovid wrote: post #694

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"The current conflict isn't some thousand year old feud" Well, actually, it is. There were 1200 years of war, conquest, slavery, ethnic cleansing, genocide and apartheid up until the caliphate was defeated and broken up in 1920/1924. For 1200 years, non-muslims lived under apartheid (Dhimmi). Up until that point, Islamic supremacism was as firmly established as white supremacism was in America. I suppose if America (…

> some land was made available to the Native Americans to build their own sovereign nation, you would be against that ? You know that would have been great. But who are the native Americans in your example? Majority of Zionists that established Israel and their groups arrived by ships from Europe. Wouldn't that more resemble England and Spain colonization expeditions in your example? Weird.. like the story almost mat…

There is nothing made up about 1200 years of oppression by an empire that was built on conquest, numerous forms of slavers, ethnic cleaning, and genocide.

This is not something that happened thousands of years ago, it ended 100 years ago, and is directly relevant to what is going on today.

The fact that some of the founders of Israel were the descendants of those who fled their native lands due to oppression does not change anything, any more than Palestinians who are born in different countries would no longer have ties to their homeland in the Middle East.

And yes, I firmly believe that the Palestinians have a right to a country of their own, but not at the cost of eliminating Israel and imposing sharia law

Re: Israel, Hamas reach ceasefire deal to end 15 months of war in Gaza

#814

Post by kombine » Thu, Jan 16, 2025, 1:50 PM UTC

jraby3 wrote: post #459

hedora wrote: post #443

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How are you proposing the deal could be made more fair? Keep in mind: Israel killed 100x more civilians than Palestine during this conflict, and more damage was done to Gaza than any European city during wwii. 90% of the population is displaced. 10% are casualties. Israel intentionally blew up all the civil infrastructure (hospitals, doctors, engineers) first. There are > 17,000 children that have no adults to care f…

It could be made more fair if all the hostages were released. Why would international society accept hundreds of peaceful civilians being tortured, raped and murdered for over a year as acceptable? Israel actually built a lot of the civilian infrastructure, including the largest hospital in Gaza. It's pretty clear those places are being used as terrorist hideouts and to launch rocket attacks. Why is it acceptable to…

> It's pretty clear those places are being used as terrorist hideouts and to launch rocket attacks.

No, this is not pretty clear. This is pure Israeli propaganda.

Re: Israel, Hamas reach ceasefire deal to end 15 months of war in Gaza

#815

Post by alex1138 » Thu, Jan 16, 2025, 1:50 PM UTC

malandrew wrote: post #515

alex1138 wrote: post #300

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, sure, it's all Israel's fault, after the 1200 people slaughtered on October 7

To this day we still have no idea how many of those 1200 people were killed by Hamas and how many were killed by the IDF under the Hannibal Directive. There likely are thousands upon thousands of hours of footage from October 7th from private/personal security cameras and also from the camera equipment on the attack helicopters and tanks. Yet, despite all the footage that likely exists, a total of 46 minutes has been…

I'll just piggyback on this to incidentally echo what you said about Jan 6, plenty of footage of Capitol police allowing them to just walk in peacefully (and yes, agent provocateurs)

It was a strange day, with a lot of moving parts. Some people died but nobody (Sicknick) was beaten to death with a fire extinguisher

Re: Israel, Hamas reach ceasefire deal to end 15 months of war in Gaza

#816

Post by weatherlite » Thu, Jan 16, 2025, 1:51 PM UTC

macspoofing wrote: post #803

xg15 wrote: post #21

Everything else aside, this is an absolutely fantastic development and I really hope the ceasefire holds and all hostages are released. I just fear this will cause western media and politicians to and declare the crisis to be over (after it had began on Oct. 7, of course absolutely out of the blue and without any context...) and go back to pretending everything is back to normal. Never mind that Gaza is still in ruin…

This is a one-sided description of the conflict. I am empathetic to Israel, because they also do not have a lot options. Israel, as it it currently constituted (based on 1967 borders) is not a viable state if the West Bank is a hostile entity with a standing army, and funded to a similar extent as Hezbollah. The West Bank bulges into Israel and effectively cuts the country in half and places all strategic targets wit…

> "trust us that if you give us full, un-fettered independence, then we will not be a hostile entity"

I don't agree, that's an optimistic view of things. Most Palestinians (Hamas for sure, Abbas as well) never agreed to give up on the 'Right of Return' so its not really independence in a 2 state solution that they're looking for, it's the abolishment of Israel.

Re: Israel, Hamas reach ceasefire deal to end 15 months of war in Gaza

#817

Post by dotancohen » Thu, Jan 16, 2025, 1:52 PM UTC

hmcq6 wrote: post #791

southernplaces7 wrote: post #629

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>And never mind that Israel still has a fundamentalist, authoritarian government that is actively at work undermining democratic structures and civil rights even inside the state As opposed to the neighboring states (and Hamas), which mostly have religiously tolerant, fully democratic governments that fully respect civil rights, and which of course have never openly stated that they want Israel to disappear from exis…

> undermining democratic structures and civil rights even inside the state Who killed Rabin? Israelis killed their own PM to prevent the Oslo Accords, the goal of the Oslo Accords was to provide a 2 state solution. Don't rewrite history.

I could name a dozen Arab leaders who were assassinated by Arabs for expressing interests in making peace with Israel. If we start looking them up I wager we'll get to two dozen.

Re: Israel, Hamas reach ceasefire deal to end 15 months of war in Gaza

#818

Post by trimethylpurine » Thu, Jan 16, 2025, 1:53 PM UTC

aprilthird2021 wrote: post #625

throwaway2037 wrote: post #556

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a great post. Thank you to share your personal experience. Do you think they were first generation Palestinians? Or multi-generation (parents or earlier immigrated)? I know that Michigan state (Detroit, etc.) has one of the largest Arab communities in the United States.

I went to school with some first generation Palestinians just 5-ish years ago. One of them had to miss an entire quarter because Israel just wouldn't allow him to leave. He has never been back to Palestine since then because another detainment or missed visa problem, etc. would derail his career.

Some part of this doesn't make sense. He couldn't leave from Gaza or Egypt? Why would he have needed Israel's permission?

Re: Israel, Hamas reach ceasefire deal to end 15 months of war in Gaza

#819

Post by weatherlite » Thu, Jan 16, 2025, 1:54 PM UTC

gravisultra wrote: post #296

boringg wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While this is a good development. Everything in this part of the world is on a rinse snd repeat cycle ever since the Assyrians and the Babylonians - it hasn't changed much except maybe its actually a little more humane then it was in the past (which says something). Sorry for the cynical take but this just does a temporary stop.

That's not true at all. The current conflict isn't some thousand year old feud. It was very much caused by the deliberate provocation and importation of European settlers via Zionism. It's easy to wave our hands and say "it's so complicated!" or "they've been doing this for thousands of years!" but it's not complicated, much like apartheid South Africa, Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan were not complicated. Colonialis…

It's a 120 year old feud, quite a lot, and even with a one sided extremist view such as your own I would at least hope anti semitism, pogroms, the holocaust and the right for self determination would make you see there's at least a bit of complexity here.

Also - even if this take was true , what's your end game - all states based on past colonialism need to be abolished ? Or is that the right solution only for Israel. E.g if Mexico starts bombing the U.S to get back Mexico, parts of Texas etc, we should all support them right?

Re: Israel, Hamas reach ceasefire deal to end 15 months of war in Gaza

#820

Post by kombine » Thu, Jan 16, 2025, 1:54 PM UTC

KikoHeit wrote: post #517

hedora wrote: post #443

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How are you proposing the deal could be made more fair? Keep in mind: Israel killed 100x more civilians than Palestine during this conflict, and more damage was done to Gaza than any European city during wwii. 90% of the population is displaced. 10% are casualties. Israel intentionally blew up all the civil infrastructure (hospitals, doctors, engineers) first. There are > 17,000 children that have no adults to care f…

[flagged]

> There are consequences.

Here we go, justifying war crimes in the plain sight.