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Assisted dying now accounts for one in 20 Canada deaths

bbc.com

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Re: Assisted dying now accounts for one in 20 Canada deaths

#811

Post by neverartful »

aroberge wrote: post #797
neverartful wrote: post #758

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Accepting suffering as part of the human condition. In the Christian faith, Christians are taught that suffering is part of life and good things can result from it. Like what? Empathy, love, and compassion from caregivers, friends, and family to the suffering person. Also, the suffering person may express love to those around them. Jesus allowed himself to be crucified and suffered one of the most horrible deaths ima…

I accept your suffering if you choose so. If I knew you personally, I would even do all I could to help and comfort you. However, I cannot condone you imposing suffering on others in the name of YOUR religion.

I never said anything about me wanting to impose my religious belief on others.

Re: Assisted dying now accounts for one in 20 Canada deaths

#812

Post by matttproud »

dghlsakjg wrote: post #649
standardUser wrote: post #497

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So the hospital withheld IV hydration and provided a morphine drip and he was gone in 36 hours. I watched loved ones die this way. It's cruel, absurd and grotesque. A doctor will look you dead in the eye and say "your loved one will be dead within a few days" and instead of killing them mercifully you are forced to watch them die of dehydration. A maddening and indefensible relic that I believe younger generations…

My BIL is a head hospice nurse. If it helps, they don’t ever deny people fluids who want or need them. What happens towards the end is the body stops being able to process fluids due to failing organs. Pushing fluids into someone in this state makes them less comfortable. People aren’t thirsty or suffering from a lack of fluids. As far as putting someone out of their misery, there’s a reason that they put them on hig…

At a hospice literally right now for a loved one (who is sound asleep). The nurse working there quoted something like this: ca. 95% of the people admitted will die of dehydration since they can't take in fluids after a certain point.

My knowledge of anatomy is poor, so I am unsure how I feel about this. It isn't helped by the morphine, which seems to further separate the loved one from reality in a manner that seem premature (compared to the other painkillers that the person has been on that have been having a high degree of efficacy).

And to be clear, I am 100% behind the idea of hospice and medically-assisted suicide. Just feel very torn right now with the impending loss of the loved one.

Re: Assisted dying now accounts for one in 20 Canada deaths

#813

Post by defrost »

llamaLord wrote: post #790
defrost wrote: post #692

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And? That's a serious ask, not a snarky response. The headline is Canadians with nonterminal conditions sought assisted dying for social reasons and my question is, so what happened? Was she killed by the state or did she get some much needed assistance with housing, etc. (or neither). I'd argue that her coming forward is a good thing in the big picture as it adds concrete examples and data for making a case for bett…

Both examples were killed by the state... That's my point, the safeguards failed and the people were euthanized...

Both cases concerned people who requested euthansia, and repeatedly so.

Both cases were borderline and raised concerns.

Both cases were reviewed.

It is imposssible to have any such system in the real world that does not have concerning edge cases.

It is a system that many people want for both themselves and for their relatives in cases that are clearcut.

The problematic reality about people with mental issues and disabilities is that they are also autonomous people who have opinions, think for themselves, and sometimes decide that their own circumstances are no longer tenable following years, decades even, of struggling through.

See eg: The Last Leg from the UK.

It's not desirable to have a system that kills people that don't want to die and wouldn't choose death if they had better options.

What are the housing options for people with chronic mental issues (eg: the extreme examples of schizophrenia, bipolar disorders, etc) that have no support and have exhausted friends and relatives?

These are not easy problems.

What is your proposed solution?

Re: Assisted dying now accounts for one in 20 Canada deaths

#814

Post by yatopifo »

rightbyte wrote: post #271
hombre_fatal wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's ethically childish that we use roundabout measures like that instead of just putting someone out of their misery overtly. It creates a drawn out process where the family has to wait around until they pass at some unknown point instead of coming together in one moment, making peace, saying their farewell, and witnessing the finality together. It took my girlfriend's vegetative mother a week to die as she struggle…

> It's ethically childish that we use roundabout measures like that Dogmas and tabus might be there for a reason. Culturally I think we need to pretend thing we don't think are true.

Comments here made me realize how heterogeneous our worldview actually is. There is a rather clear split between Canadian and American comments. The first group talks about euthanasia positively, but the second group is largely cautious, looking for negatives but not rejecting the idea altogether. I did not expect there would be such a dramatic rift.

Re: Assisted dying now accounts for one in 20 Canada deaths

#815

Post by yatopifo »

jbm wrote: post #7

I find it overall very unnerving how quiet this is and how the Canadian press never really finds issues with this. I often saw Japanese media moving lock-step with the police (in terms of vocabulary to use for certain crimes, how to report certain issues), and thought it was creepy as hell. However, the complete lack of questioning of the purpose behind a sudden legalization of euthanasia (in a country with public he…

As a Canadian, i would certainly write a very unpleasant letter to the editor of a Canadian newspaper publishing anything against MAiD. To me, euthanasia is unquestionably necessary. The problem of healthcare availability is completely orthogonal because MAiD is an option available but never forced as an alternative.

Re: Assisted dying now accounts for one in 20 Canada deaths

#816

Post by nickff »

dghlsakjg wrote: post #803
nickff wrote: post #721

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair to the grandparent, you can’t fully audit whether the cases of the people who successfully petitioned, because they’re now dead.

You can petition for MAID, and get approval, and then choose not go through with it.

And those cases could definitely be audited, but that will be a limited and biased sample.

Re: Assisted dying now accounts for one in 20 Canada deaths

#817

Post by weard_beard »

Neonlicht wrote: post #767
robertlagrant wrote: post #734

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A broken society I don't think this is necessarily broken by any reasonable standard. If no medication exists, that's not "broken society". Nor is there not being money to give a bespoke treatment to everyone, no matter how expensive it is. If that's broken, no society in history has ever not been broken. Which is just a poor definition.

Yeah I wonder how people who say this stuff feel about the homeless? How do they feel about tax increase to fix "broken society"?

We feel fine. The ones against taxes never cared and pay the least proportion.

Re: Assisted dying now accounts for one in 20 Canada deaths

#818

Post by nashashmi »

jncfhnb wrote: post #757
nashashmi wrote: post #433

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That would be the fault of those who are responsible for her happiness

Ok. Even if we hold that ridiculous assumption true… so what? Let’s say grandma is explicitly suffering because others are failing her? Your proposed thesis still suggests she does not have justification for choosing death. What does she still owe us.

I think you pivoted to another argument. Better would have been if you had started with that argument. Instead you asked what is grandma good for?

Re: Assisted dying now accounts for one in 20 Canada deaths

#819

Post by nashashmi »

itishappy wrote: post #527
nashashmi wrote: post #344

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I will define it for you: immature: "I know what life means and this is not the meaning of life" OR "we should not burden others with our remorse and pain and so share nothing with anyone lest it cause them pain too." (I hope I don't have to elaborate how this is immature.) arrogant: "who knows better what I need than me? I know it well enough that no one else matters" selfish: "If I am the one who wants something, w…

Thanks for the clarification. I'm curious how you can reconcile your beliefs with those definitions, which I feel apply equally well to your own arguments: immature: "I know what life means and that is not the meaning of life." or "Suffering cannot be unbearable, can always be improved by sharing it, and everyone has a robust support network ready and willing to share their pain." arrogant: "15 thousand suffering peo…

In order to play a reverse uno card, you would have to at least use established reasons. Instead you chose libertarianisms: “dont tell me what to do; I will decide what is best for me”

I don’t operate under libertarian principles.

Re: Assisted dying now accounts for one in 20 Canada deaths

#820

Post by mjh2539 »

BrandoElFollito wrote: post #808
neverartful wrote: post #758

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Accepting suffering as part of the human condition. In the Christian faith, Christians are taught that suffering is part of life and good things can result from it. Like what? Empathy, love, and compassion from caregivers, friends, and family to the suffering person. Also, the suffering person may express love to those around them. Jesus allowed himself to be crucified and suffered one of the most horrible deaths ima…

Christians can suffer as much as they like. To everyone their weirdness. Just don't push it to others under the name of morality out other bullshit. I would like to be able to die when I want to, in a simple and painless way. Because I will do it anyway jumping under a train or lorry it is just messy for everyone.

Your life doesn't belong to you. You need to reread the Phaedo.
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