Earlier quoted context omitted.
[flagged]
TeMPOraL is Polish.
TeMPOral is indeed not responsible for most of the vapid idiocies written here about the EU which annoyed me. Thank you for pointing that I’m commenting in anger.
Telegram founder Pavel Durov arrested at French airport
811–820 of 1001 posts
Re: Telegram founder Pavel Durov arrested at French airport
#812It's hard to respond to some of the commentary here. We truly exist mentally on different planets. The West wants Telegram destroyed because the platform permits the sharing of information and ideas that are in opposition to Western domestic and foreign policy(Israel, Ukraine, China etc). This is in addition to the West not having a backdoor to Telegram and not having it's servers on Western soil. Why do you want you…
If you really want to start a flamewar you can also casually mention the fact that Telegram also gives CCP major headache cause they don't control it and it's actually popular (unlike Signal) in China.
How is it not banned in China?
Re: Telegram founder Pavel Durov arrested at French airport
#813It’ll be interesting to see if the likes of Marlinspike, Firefox, EFF, etc., rally to support this guy. It’s really chilling to see the steps EU gobs are taking against free speech. In some ways they seem more authoritarian than even China and Russia. It’s like “free world” is becoming a farce.
Normal people: We see you host groups for organized crime, we need targetted data you have about those criminals. This is what law enforcement should do (instead of surveillance dragnets). HN: NO! free speech. Sincere advice: get out of those libertarian echo chambers, and think about real consequences.
I'm not a liberatarian nor am I a US citizen (Australian), however ...
IF you let LEO's access group chats THEN you absolutely need civilian accountable honest transparent clear oversight to avoid mission creep.
The task isn't as clear cut as "known criminal is part of OC groups", there's a clear Sorities Paradox asking when does an OC group chat become a neighbourhood watch | knitting group chat.
If our criminal of interest is part of RealMafiaChat, PrepperLifeStyles, CamThePolice, GuideDogsForVets, etc. etc. et al. then how many of these should be surveilled .. and how many other group chat members should also be surveilled ?
Yes. Take down real criminals.
Yes, it's an actual problem that real innocents get swept up Kafka-esque for being unwittingly criminal adjacent.
What's the cost benefit number and trade off for actual innocent lives ruined?
Re: Telegram founder Pavel Durov arrested at French airport
#814Earlier quoted context omitted.
You are distracting from the issue: when law enforcement infiltrate into criminal telegram groups (drugs, child trafficking etc), they are for once doing their fucking job by ordering the platform to give them all the details they collect, so that they can come after those criminals. If Telegram did actually prioritize private and secure communication, they would indeed be just a data pipe and nothing could be shared…
> ordering the platform to give them all the details they collect, so that they can come after those criminals. What details are you assuming Telegram are sitting on, besides the data law enforcement already collected? Durov got arrested for insufficient moderation of public channels, so my guess is that law enforcement would be able to get exactly the same data as Telegram themselves sit on. But it's hard to get a f…
So he was... but there's this coincidence... https://nitter.poast.org/RALee85/status/1827459553526448307#...
Re: Telegram founder Pavel Durov arrested at French airport
#815Earlier quoted context omitted.
Ever since von der Leyen became president. Typical for her since she also tried the same shit in Germany.
Sadly, this isn't the case. I keep bringing it up since people forget about it: in 2006 the EU adopted the Data Retention Directive that forced all ISPs to save the browsing history of everyone. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Data_Retention_Directive It was eventually declared invalid by the European court of human rights, but it was still in effect for many years. Countries that did not implement this (eg Romania bec…
> Countries that did not implement this (eg Romania because their constitutional court found it illegal) were sued by the EU commission.
This is funny because the secret service abuses citizens' privacy in Romania all the time. But this turned against corrupt politicians which is probably why they sued. The secret service wiretapped them and gave the recordings to the anti-corruption directorate which was then led by the current EPPO chief prosecutor. Some high level politicians ended up in prison after much friction, but in the end a few heads had to roll in order to at least give the impression of fighting corruption, which the US Embassy and the EU asked for.
Romanian establishment parties would vote anything that comes out of the Comission. CSAM? They will vote for it. The opposition is basically Kremlin funded right wingers which were barred even from joining Viktor Orban's conservative group and two small parties like Macron's, one which didn't get any votes and the other has like three MEPs after making an alliance with two other small parties. If the right wingers vote against CSAM it's just to sabotage the EU decision process.
Re: Telegram founder Pavel Durov arrested at French airport
#816A bunch of people in comments here seem to misunderstand what telegram is. It is not just a messaging app, it is essentially a platform like twitter, with channels, hundreds of thousands of subscribers to those. While I fully support E2EE communication with no back-doors, I think it is perfectly fair for governments to have some control to take down large channels that are clearly against the law. I do not know the t…
I am long done with commenting on this platform, as most of Russian people, who cannot write here (and most of other western internet forums) what they think. I will make an exception in this case, however. 1. "I think it is perfectly fair for governments to take down large channels that are clearly against the law" Telegram obviously acts upon such requests Here in Italy I cannot access the channels of RIA and Sputn…
[flagged]
Re: Telegram founder Pavel Durov arrested at French airport
#817It's hard to respond to some of the commentary here. We truly exist mentally on different planets. The West wants Telegram destroyed because the platform permits the sharing of information and ideas that are in opposition to Western domestic and foreign policy(Israel, Ukraine, China etc). This is in addition to the West not having a backdoor to Telegram and not having it's servers on Western soil. Why do you want you…
The ship has already sailed years ago. Suddenly, everyone is pro-censorship, you just have to say the magic words like "hate speech", "terrorists" or something with children. The media became a mouthpiece of the government instead of asking critical questions. It wasn't like this before and it terrifies me. The people will only see the damage once it affects them personally.
Re: Telegram founder Pavel Durov arrested at French airport
#818It's hard to respond to some of the commentary here. We truly exist mentally on different planets. The West wants Telegram destroyed because the platform permits the sharing of information and ideas that are in opposition to Western domestic and foreign policy(Israel, Ukraine, China etc). This is in addition to the West not having a backdoor to Telegram and not having it's servers on Western soil. Why do you want you…
I think you are living on a different planet.
I am pretty staunchly pro-privacy, but this arrest has little to do with
> permits the sharing of information and ideas that are in opposition to Western domestic and foreign policy(Israel, Ukraine, China etc)
It is about drug sales and extremism, that last one being about alt right / anti-vaccine crazies / terrorism, whatever else extremism du jour.
Re: Telegram founder Pavel Durov arrested at French airport
#819Earlier quoted context omitted.
> You don’t see “the West” whatever that means go after WhatsApp, Signal or Matrix. That should tell you something. WhatsApp is a good corporate puppy of the West; Signal is a crazy nothingburger that recently burned its reputation by going into cryptocurrencies; Matrix, like with all FLOSS, has approximately zero users and is way under the radar of authorities. Still, you do occasionally see talk and moves against t…
[flagged]
> Do you have an actual argument against my main point - Telegram UX is literally designed to facilitate drug trafficking inside the application
Shmaybe, idk. It never occurred to me until you wrote it that this feature would be used for drug trade. Then again, the one time I turned it on out of curiosity, I figured it's mostly used for prostitution. I guess the use may differ across the world :).
FWIW, I'm somewhat with you on this - I'm not assuming that governments and law enforcement frowning on E2EE chats are just fascists revealing themselves. USA is good at signalling the zeitgeist, but all the issues with police power abuse are IMHO a USA problem, not a whole world problem; over here, people seem to have a little more trust in governments and law enforcement.
Re: Telegram founder Pavel Durov arrested at French airport
#820Earlier quoted context omitted.
Famous quote that if you sacrifice freedom for security, you will get neither.
*sigh* Dude, if it's really that relevant and compelling at least quote it properly . It's 2024, finding and copy-pasting is barely slower than typing a bad paraphrase. > Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. -- A committee which included Benjamin Franklin _____________ That said, this quote is typically misused, or at best being used way…
Heh. So the liberty in the context is the liberty to tax? Like, all uses of the quote I have seen has been in spirit of something of the opposite.