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Panic at the Job Market

matt.sh

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Re: Panic at the Job Market

#811

Post by pjmlp »

bmitc wrote: post #249
evrimoztamur wrote: post #23

I will add my two cents for people who believe that this might be related only to the SWE and tangent industries: It's really not. I have many friends (in Europe) who are trying to get through to different jobs in unrelated industries ranging from finance to fashion, or just trying to get promoted vertically (or horizontally), failing rather miserably. Most jobs are now hoops after hoops, not taking into consideratio…

> Most jobs are now hoops after hoops, not taking into consideration your particular profile or the contributions you can make. This is really key. I have applied for jobs before, and then get questions like: "what's your experience with C++ or advanced graph algorithms?". Only that, none of that shows up in my profile or resume. But they act surprised and completely shrug off how a decade of software and other relev…

Add to that the ageism, and it is really a bummer trying to jump into jobs, where the requirements aren't clearly specified on the CV as the very last thing we worked on, regardless of experience in previous years or open source projects proving otherwise.

I have long learned that the only way to switch technology is via consultancies, and being lucky to land on those projects where the team is sold as having "experience".

Re: Panic at the Job Market

#812

Post by avidphantasm »

If you look outside of “tech” companies, you can find pockets of high demand for software engineers. I work in hydrography and private companies and government agencies in this field are starving for good software engineers. The pay is decent (though not as good as FAANG or maybe even some start-ups of yore), but more importantly the work is really interesting.

Re: Panic at the Job Market

#813

Post by ttla »

While I know this isn't an option for everyone, pursuing your own small business is an alternative to employment. Requires some savings to get started, and no guarantees of success, but it's worth considering.

Re: Panic at the Job Market

#814

Post by globular-toast »

avidphantasm wrote: post #812

If you look outside of “tech” companies, you can find pockets of high demand for software engineers. I work in hydrography and private companies and government agencies in this field are starving for good software engineers. The pay is decent (though not as good as FAANG or maybe even some start-ups of yore), but more importantly the work is really interesting.

Yep. This is why I'm not worried. I live so far below my means I could take a 50% pay cut and not even notice. If you're earning anywhere near what TFA thinks people earn and you'd notice if you took a 50% pay cut, then I have absolutely no sympathy for you.

Re: Panic at the Job Market

#815

Post by CM30 »

putzdown wrote: post #806
CM30 wrote: post #801

The big problem is that all the issues in tech hiring have been amplified by a thousand in the last year or so. We previously had problems with unrealistic tech requirements and companies looking for unicorns, now we have almost every company operating under those same insane requirements if not more. We previously had issues with interviews asking way too much of the applicant, now they're seemingly twice as long fo…

It is insane. But it leaves the question: why are companies doing it? They must believe it’s working for them, or they’d change it. God knows companies are motivated to hire good people. Maybe someone in HR or even a technical manager in one of these companies can answer: on what theory are these processes believed to be effective?

I suspect the answer is that so many people are looking for work, that these unicorns and incredibly desperate people willing to go through 10+ stages of interviews do actually exist in this market.

There are probably at least a few ex senior/staff level FAANG employees desperate enough for work that they're applying to these roles, and a few people with enough invested in their life that a 10 stage interview is seen as worth it to avoid losing the house.

So for these companies, the small chance they might actually get their magical unicorn engineers is enough of an incentive to shoot for the moon and see what happens.

Alternatively, the process isn't working, but they're too stubborn to admit it. I still see many of the same jobs I applied for 6 months ago hanging around on LinkedIn/Indeed/Reed/Otta/WellFound/whatever with no evidence they've filled the position. Maybe if they cut the requirements down, trimmed down the interview process, offered remote work or provided more reasonable take home tests they might actually find someone before 2028.

Re: Panic at the Job Market

#816

Post by z3t4 »

In and unsound market everyone looses, both the employees and the employer. In order to win you have to take advantage of the market flaws. You could for example hire the geniuses that aren't able to find a job. And milk money from FAANG and governments.

Re: Panic at the Job Market

#817

Post by lazide »

burningChrome wrote: post #353
evrimoztamur wrote: post #23

I will add my two cents for people who believe that this might be related only to the SWE and tangent industries: It's really not. I have many friends (in Europe) who are trying to get through to different jobs in unrelated industries ranging from finance to fashion, or just trying to get promoted vertically (or horizontally), failing rather miserably. Most jobs are now hoops after hoops, not taking into consideratio…

>> Most jobs are now hoops after hoops. I had no idea it had gotten so bad. 4th of July was talking with my brother-in-law. His daughter just got some awesome job working for an insurance company (they do commercial insurance) and she had over EIGHT interviews she had to go through, which involved not one, but two days where she spent the day at the company. I could not believe it takes companies and managers this mu…

That sounds like a historically incredibly typical interviewing process.

Re: Panic at the Job Market

#818

Post by badpun »

screye wrote: post #566
lr4444lr wrote: post #549

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wish on everyone complaining about tech interviews the misfortune of working with an incompetent fraud who makes their work life miserable. Jobs are on offer for 6 figure salaries that require nothing more metabolically taxing than typing on a keyboard, in a temperature controlled environment, where you get to use your brain to solve problems, and these complainers think it won't be rife with frauds? The whole boot…

FAANG-like companies don't usually interview bootcamp candidates. Most times, they're interviewing other ex-Fang-like or top university grads with a relevant CS degree. Track record and conversational interviews are used for hiring lawyers, doctors, MBA and marketing professional.....why are programmers any different ? Reality is, todays tech interview questions select for those without a life. Great professionals so…

I think it's by design. People with no lifes are usually better workers. And those who have lifes, but managed to find time to leetcode really want to work for you.

Re: Panic at the Job Market

#819

Post by sseppola »

Draiken wrote: post #808
weatherlite wrote: post #701

Sometimes I feel really bummed out I am getting 1/2 (or less?) of Google compensation. But then I open my eyes - see the workers in my daughter's kindergarten slaving away taking care of 30 toddlers for less than half what I make, nurses and doctors working in conditions I wouldn't be able to tolerate for more than a few months without mentally collapsing, the people in the supermarkets, gas stations, police, fire de…

We have to complain about literally everything you just said. The entire system is broken. Everyone should be entitled to live their lives without being subject to these awful conditions, but we as a society keep allowing this to happen because we don't really see them as equals. As long as we individually can get by, we can easily dismiss what everyone else endures. I would happily live with less if everyone else co…

This makes me think of ‘Why a meritocracy is corrosive to society’ by Philosphize This! It was very interesting to hear the downsides expressed, and how ingrained it is in society to the point that we don’t even notice. Perhaps the most important point: how thankful we should be to have the skills to be highly valued in this environment, which will give you some empathy to the people who don’t. https://open.spotify.com/episode/7ASBhftzNrJnFL0NV3Iqtu?si=c...

Re: Panic at the Job Market

#820

Post by 3manuek »

caesil wrote: post #53

>According to all the interviews I’ve failed over the years (I don’t think I’ve ever passed an actual “coding interview” anywhere?), the entire goal of tech hiring is just finding people in the 100 to 115 midwit block then outright rejecting everybody else as too much of an unknown risk. As a (now) senior/staff-level engineer back out on the job market for the first time in a while, I'm begrudgingly coming to accept…

I'm on this that technical interviews aren't broken (at least the ones I did during the past 2 years or so), what is broken are the job specs. They may have turned _picky_, but okish.
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