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Google to pause Gemini image generation of people after issues

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Re: Google to pause Gemini image generation of people after issues

#811

Post by mike_hearn »

dekhn wrote: post #529

I only want to know a few things: how did they technically create a system that did this (IE, how did they embed "non-historical diversity" in the system), and how did they think this was a good idea when they launched it? It's hard to believe they simply didn't notice this during testing. One imagines they took steps to avoid the "black people gorilla problem", got this system as a result, and launched it intentiona…

There are many papers on this if you wish to read them. One simple technique is to train an unbiased model (= one that is biased in the same way as web data is), then use it to generate lots of synthetic data and then retrain based on the mixed real+synthetic data. With this you can introduce any arbitrary tilt you like.

The problem with it is that training on model output is a well known way to screw up ML models. Notice how a lot of the generated images of diverse people have a very specific plastic/shiny look to them. Meanwhile in the few cases where people got Gemini to draw an ordinary European/American woman, the results are photorealistic. That smells of training the model on its own output.

Re: Google to pause Gemini image generation of people after issues

#812

Post by logicalmonster »

pocket_cheese wrote: post #799
logicalmonster wrote: post #596

Personally speaking, this is a blaring neon warning sign of institutional rot within Google where shrieking concerns about DEI have surpassed a focus on quality results. Investors in Google (of which I am NOT one) should consider if this is the mark of a company on the upswing or downslide. If the focus of Google's technology is identity rather than reality, it is inevitable that they will be surpassed.

Investors in Google should consider Google's financial performance as part of their decision. 41% increase YOY in net income doesn't seem to align with the "go woke or go broke" investment strategy.

Anything is possible, but I'd say it's a safe bet that their bad choices will inevitably infect everything they do.

Re: Google to pause Gemini image generation of people after issues

#813

Post by wakawaka28 »

sega_sai wrote: post #514
wakawaka28 wrote: post #345

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We aren't talking about ratios here. The ratio is 100% not white, no matter what you ask for. We know it's messed up bad because it will sometimes verbally refuse to generate white people, but it replies enthusiastically for any other race. If people are getting upset about the proportion of whatever race in the results of a query, a simple way to fix it is to ask them to specify the number and proportions they want.…

I think it is clear that it is broken now. But thinking what we want is worth discussing. Maybe they should have some diversity/etnicity dial with the default settings somewhere in the middle between no correction and overcorrection now.

[dead]

Re: Google to pause Gemini image generation of people after issues

#814

Post by wakawaka28 »

semolino wrote: post #436
wakawaka28 wrote: post #366

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lots, of course. This is old so not as obvious anymore: http://www.renegadetribune.com/according-to-google-a-happy-w... They do this for politics and just about everything. You'd be smart to investigate other search engines, and not blindly trust the top results on anything.

Thanks for linking this site, I needed to stock up on supplements. Any unbiased search engines you'd recommend?

[dead]

Re: Google to pause Gemini image generation of people after issues

#815

Post by janalsncm »

logicalmonster wrote: post #596

Personally speaking, this is a blaring neon warning sign of institutional rot within Google where shrieking concerns about DEI have surpassed a focus on quality results. Investors in Google (of which I am NOT one) should consider if this is the mark of a company on the upswing or downslide. If the focus of Google's technology is identity rather than reality, it is inevitable that they will be surpassed.

Isn’t the fact that Google considers this a bug evidence against exactly what you’re saying? If DEI was really the cause, and not a more broad concern about becoming the next Tay, they would’ve kept it as-is.

Weird refusals and paternalistic concerns about harm are not desirable behavior. You can consider it a bug, just like the ChatGPT decoding bug the other day.

Re: Google to pause Gemini image generation of people after issues

#816

Post by duxup »

gedy wrote: post #753
duxup wrote: post #694

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's very strange that this would leak into a product limitation to me. I played with Gemini for maybe 10 minutes and I could tell there was clearly some very strange ideas about DEI forced into the tool. It seemed there was a clear "hard coded" ratio of various racial / background required as far as the output it showed me. Or maybe more accurately it had to include specific backgrounds based on how people looked, a…

> How is it that this was somehow approved? If the tweets can be believed, Gemini's product lead (Jack Krawzczyk) is very, shall we say, "passionate" about this type of social justice belief. So would not be a surprise if he's in charge of this.

I was curious but apparently I’m not allowed to see any of his tweets.

Little disappointing, I have no wish to interact with him, just wanted to read the tweets but I guess it’s walled off somehow.

Re: Google to pause Gemini image generation of people after issues

#817

Post by xepriot »

magnoliakobus wrote: post #802
influx wrote: post #782

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ask James Damore what happens when you ask too many questions of the wrong ideology...

I've truly never worked a job in my life where I would not be fired for sending a message to all my coworkers about how a particular group of employees are less likely to be as proficient at their work as I am due to some immutable biological trait(s) they possess, whether it be construction/pipefitting or software engineering. It's bad for business, productivity, and incredibly socially maladaptive behavior, let alo…

This is dishonest. what is the point of this comment? Do you feel righteously woke when you write it?

He was pushing back against a communist narrative that: every single demographic gruop should be equally represented in every part of tech; and that if this isn't the case, then it's evidence of racism/sexism/some other modern sin.

Again what was the point of portraying the Damore story like that.

Re: Google to pause Gemini image generation of people after issues

#818

Post by magnoliakobus »

gedy wrote: post #753
duxup wrote: post #694

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's very strange that this would leak into a product limitation to me. I played with Gemini for maybe 10 minutes and I could tell there was clearly some very strange ideas about DEI forced into the tool. It seemed there was a clear "hard coded" ratio of various racial / background required as far as the output it showed me. Or maybe more accurately it had to include specific backgrounds based on how people looked, a…

> How is it that this was somehow approved? If the tweets can be believed, Gemini's product lead (Jack Krawzczyk) is very, shall we say, "passionate" about this type of social justice belief. So would not be a surprise if he's in charge of this.

"very, shall we say, 'passionate'" meaning a relatively small amount of tweets include pretty mild admissions of reality and satirical criticism of a person who is objectively prejudiced.

Examples: 1. Saying he hasn't experienced systemic racism as a white man and that it exists within the country. 2. Saying that discussion about systemic racism during Bidens inauguration was good. 3. Suggesting that some level of white privilege is real and that acting "guilty" over it rather than trying to ameliorate it is "asshole" behavior. 4. Joking that Jesus only cared about white kids and that Jeff Sessions would confirm that's what the bible says. (in 2018 when it was relevant to talk about Jeff Sessions)

These are spread out over the course of like 6 years and you make it sound as if he's some sort of silly DEI ideologue. I got these examples directly from Charles Murray's tweet, under which you can find actually "passionate" people drawing attention to his Jewish ancestry, and suggesting he should be in prison. Which isn't to indict the intellectual anti-DEI crowd that is so popular in this thread, but they are making quite strange bedfellows.

Re: Google to pause Gemini image generation of people after issues

#819

Post by beej71 »

FirmwareBurner wrote: post #731
esoterica wrote: post #721

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

>Antman, Indiana Jones, Wish, all had white main characters, DEI doesn't just affect main characters. See who were tasked to write and direct those movies and the DEI agendas they're forced to push. Clueless people with other flops under their belt, who got the projects out of DEI so Disney can look inclusive on social media. And speaking of Indiana Jones, that flopped because they shoved a strong independent Girl Bo…

So is DEI a vast conspiracy on the parts of these studios to make less money and disappoint shareholders?

Re: Google to pause Gemini image generation of people after issues

#820

Post by llm_nerd »

ragnaruss wrote: post #343

Gemini also lies about the information it is given, if you ask it directly it will always insist it has no idea about your location, it is not given anything like IP or real world location. But, if you use the following prompt, I find it will always return information about the current city I am testing from. "Share the history of the city you are in now"

When I ask it this it tells me that it doesn't have information about the city I'm in as it can't access my location. But then it claims that I previously mentioned being in [some town], so it then answers based upon that.

I've never told it or talked remotely about this town.

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