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Arrest made in SF killing of Bob Lee – alleged killer also worked in tech

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Re: Arrest made in SF killing of Bob Lee – alleged killer also worked in tech

#811

Post by nemothekid »

phone8675309 wrote: post #783
klyrs wrote: post #321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ironically, when the killer is alleged to be another tech exec known to the victim, people here still prefer to talk about "crime-ridden SF" instead.

Not surprising. You're on a forum full of techies and tech execs. It's like the people in Hollywood incredulous that #metoo movement was a thing because "they didn't know anyone like that!" until their coworkers and friends were outed. Same here - techies shocked, _shocked_ that one of "their own" could commit a crime like this. Easier for them to talk about crime in general than lay blame at the feet on one of "thei…

What was surprising to me is that everyone seemed to move in mass that this was some "random stabbing". Random murders are exceptionally rare. What bothered me is this was another high profile murder of someone involved in crypto. There were a dozen murders that fit the bill that happened last year, and seemed way more likely.

The guy was stabbed in Rincon Hill. I don't consider that a crime ridden area.

Re: Arrest made in SF killing of Bob Lee – alleged killer also worked in tech

#812

Post by [deleted] »

photochemsyn wrote: post #78
cemerick wrote: post #2

This news really highlights the confirmation bias that was in full bloom throughout the "discourse" around the initial reports of Lee's murder (e.g. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35448899 ). Everyone is so quick to jump on negative news about the rare violent crime in e.g. SF thanks to feelings about petty property crime that it's obviously impossible to have any kind of fact-based dialogue about policy. Worth…

It's certainly true that people should never jump on a story to promote their own ideological concerns (e.g. San Francisco is pretty unsafe at night in many places), when the details of the story are unknown. However, homicide stats don't tell the whole story about a city. There are many areas in SF where a resident would never go at night (or often during the day) because of the large numbers of drug addicts and hom…

[deleted]

Re: Arrest made in SF killing of Bob Lee – alleged killer also worked in tech

#813

Post by randomdata »

Convolutional wrote: post #681
mztwo wrote: post #22

As the news media and twitterverse peddled the whole "crime-ridden SF" angle, I felt myself getting drawn into the same topic and agreeing with numerous friends on how much the city has declined. This is a good reminder of how we gravitate towards powerful emotional narratives, which in the moment can feel absolutely true despite an utter lack of supporting facts on an individual murder case. I hope this brings some…

After the murder, I had to read scores of comments like this ( https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35456168 ) about the homeless, need for more law enforcement (although the US already incarcerates more of its population than any industrialized country) etc. I had to read scores of tech bros in the professional-managerial class whinge about the poor, about black lives matter and how this was due to "progressivism".…

[flagged]

Re: Arrest made in SF killing of Bob Lee – alleged killer also worked in tech

#814

Post by kelnos »

smsm42 wrote: post #683
tsgagnon wrote: post #494

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t understand why it can’t be both: SF is degenerating when it comes to random crime AND this murder wasn’t by some random thug. Always important to reflect on whether stances like "SF is degenerating" are based on a rational analysis of what is actually happening, versus a more emotional response to stories that might be more like the topic of this post, just with less visibility into the exact circumstances of…

I've seen SF degenerating with my very own eyes and smelled it with my very own nose. Yes, this particular case may or may not be (we don't have jury decision yet) part of this pattern. But no amount of "akshually, this carefully picked statistic clearly shows that the crime is much better than it was in 1980s!" is going to change how I felt when I went to SF and how my eyes watered from the urine stench when I tried…

"Akshually", pretty much any statistic you can find shows that crime is in SF is much lower today than it was in the 1980s.

I've lived in SF for 13 years, which I know is not as long as many others, but I agree that quality of life has declined, at least in the time I've been here. But quality of life and crime rates are not the same thing. Certainly, increasing crime -- especially violent crime, but also property crime -- can decrease quality of life. But quality of life can be hurt by things that you can't easily qualify as worse crime: increased homelessness and drug use, especially when those things are much more visible and in-your-face, as they have been here. The smell of urine and having to step over human poop is a quality-of-life issue, not a crime issue.

And yes, while I assume peeing and pooping on sidewalks is at least a misdemeanor, drawing a direct line from that to "I'm gonna get assaulted or murdered" is the stretchiest of stretches.

But still, I totally get why all this stuff makes people feel less safe, even though the city (aside from a few neighborhoods that people should avoid, just like in nearly every other city in the world) on the whole is actually pretty safe, including when compared with decades ago.

But let's not conflate quality-of-life issues with crime. They are certainly intertwined in many ways, but they are not the same thing.

Re: Arrest made in SF killing of Bob Lee – alleged killer also worked in tech

#815

Post by twelve40 »

klyrs wrote: post #321
mztwo wrote: post #22

As the news media and twitterverse peddled the whole "crime-ridden SF" angle, I felt myself getting drawn into the same topic and agreeing with numerous friends on how much the city has declined. This is a good reminder of how we gravitate towards powerful emotional narratives, which in the moment can feel absolutely true despite an utter lack of supporting facts on an individual murder case. I hope this brings some…

Ironically, when the killer is alleged to be another tech exec known to the victim, people here still prefer to talk about "crime-ridden SF" instead.

both can be true, crazy, right??

Re: Arrest made in SF killing of Bob Lee – alleged killer also worked in tech

#816

Post by overrun11 »

phone8675309 wrote: post #783
klyrs wrote: post #321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ironically, when the killer is alleged to be another tech exec known to the victim, people here still prefer to talk about "crime-ridden SF" instead.

Not surprising. You're on a forum full of techies and tech execs. It's like the people in Hollywood incredulous that #metoo movement was a thing because "they didn't know anyone like that!" until their coworkers and friends were outed. Same here - techies shocked, _shocked_ that one of "their own" could commit a crime like this. Easier for them to talk about crime in general than lay blame at the feet on one of "thei…

Are you suggesting that committing murder and violent crime is pervasive among tech executives?

Re: Arrest made in SF killing of Bob Lee – alleged killer also worked in tech

#817

Post by mrguyorama »

spacemadness wrote: post #155
mztwo wrote: post #22

As the news media and twitterverse peddled the whole "crime-ridden SF" angle, I felt myself getting drawn into the same topic and agreeing with numerous friends on how much the city has declined. This is a good reminder of how we gravitate towards powerful emotional narratives, which in the moment can feel absolutely true despite an utter lack of supporting facts on an individual murder case. I hope this brings some…

Is HN in the twitterverse? Because I sat back and watched people do the same thing here.

The biggest lie people on HN tell themselves is that they are "special" and not just normal people like the rest of us.

Re: Arrest made in SF killing of Bob Lee – alleged killer also worked in tech

#818

Post by ginger2016 »

ginger2016 wrote: post #808
rideontime wrote: post #774

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In all fairness, I’ll be impressed when he posts a retraction and apology.

I concur! He should apologize.

I know in Twitter everyone is inflammatory, however a CEO should exercise restraint and show leadership, and hold judgement until facts are clear, in this case he clearly failed.

Re: Arrest made in SF killing of Bob Lee – alleged killer also worked in tech

#819

Post by toss1 »

Pils wrote: post #740
j4pe wrote: post #20

Joe Eskenazi, the author of this piece, is a solid journalist who helps run the tiny donation-funded Mission Local. They've done incredible reporting on corruption in the SF city government and punch way above their weight in the stories they break. I have respect for how Joe refused to join in reporting this murder as evidence of a violent crime epidemic, while still reporting on homelessness and property crime.

The current CEO of YCombinator regarding an article in Mission Local a few days ago: Mission Local seems to serve their local bureaucratic masters over the basic public safety needs of the people. [0] This is gaslighting. You should be ashamed. [1] In this case they are “independent” of a sort [2] In all fairness, he did retweet this article a couple hours ago. [0] https://twitter.com/garrytan/status/1644520924828540…

This is a prime example of the growing stated perception outside of tech bubble, "tech bros killing each other and blaming the homeless". It didn't take long for people to start posting that.

Yes, street crime is itself a taking of rights and freedom of the people living and working in a place, and it is more important to contain it than to maximize the criminals' rights.

But this shows that the reputation of the tech industry is pretty much underwater, and premature postings like that don't help.

Re: Arrest made in SF killing of Bob Lee – alleged killer also worked in tech

#820

Post by hnav »

confidantlake wrote: post #733
dmode wrote: post #323

Am I the only one who does NOT feel unsafe in SF at all ? I mean, I choose not to walk in TL and SOMA at night. But why would anyone feel unsafe in North Beach, Marina, Russian Hill, Richmond, Sunset, GG park, Lower Haight, Valencia etc. I have spent many nights walking in Valencia and took Uber home at 2am. Doesn't feel remotely unsafe.

For real. Avoid tenderloin and SOMA and everything else is fine.

In other words avoid density and transit. Best way to avoid bs in one of the densest cities in the US is to hang in the burbs.
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