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I wish GPT4 had never happened

chaudhry.notion.site

811–820 of 1001 posts

Re: I wish GPT4 had never happened

#811

The fact that so many people fear loss of income as a result of better AI is a real indictment of our economic system. A better system that more fairly distributed economic productivity would make people welcome better AI because they could be confident it would make everyone wealthier instead of just a few people rich enough to be Goa'uld.

I don’t know what country you live in, but I can tell you how it is in Sweden. As a freelancer I pay appropriately 70% of what I charge in taxes. How high do you think taxes can get before people stop putting energy into raising their productivity?

Interesting, my understanding is exactly the opposite. In my opinion the reason why so many people don’t care much (or are so in love with admin jobs) in Sweden is precisely because it’s too safe?

Re: I wish GPT4 had never happened

#812
post #805

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do it. I've been challenging everyone that LARPs about the capabilities of GPT to start a business now, and use it in place of developers. Hell, for a $20 account you get the perfect developer, that is extremely productive, never gets tired, never gets sick, and has no PTO. What is stopping you?

I am building it. Have a version deployed for static pages and working on backend/VMs. See my profile.

Nice! Good luck!

Re: I wish GPT4 had never happened

#813

The big oversight here is that Priya does not want a job , what Priya wants is an income . The point of life is not working, the point of life is to enjoy it. We should strive to eliminate as many jobs as we possibly can, the less we have to work the better it is. To make this possible we need to find a way to a new system that doesn't directly link labour with income .

What a profoundly naive opinion. Most people find meaning, fulfillment, even contentment in working, especially when the problems are engaging and the solutions produce value. Many people claim their lives would be better if they never had to work, but they are bullshitting themselves with childhood naivete. Not working is a sucking void of boredom, nihilism, hedonism, and despair. I've been through some of that befo…

There is a difference between "work" and "job" that you ignore here.

Yes, most people find meaning in some kind of work. That doesn't imply that having a boss and worrying about paying your bills is more meaningful than working without a boss and without worries.

Re: I wish GPT4 had never happened

#814
post #739
post #714

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good luck trying to tax AGI companies 95% of profits. Perhaps you could strike but you'll be unemployed. I guess we'll just have to cross our fingers that Sam Altman and friends will pity us enough to give us some pocket money to survive. That's assuming the AGI created is aligned with our values. I mean, we can keep hoping that AGI will be a good thing with zero evidence or we can take action to slow progress now so…

In the history of political movements, have there been any that have been successful with slowing progress? The Luddites failed to. stop the industrial revolution, despite all the looms they broke. The cat's been released from BagGPT, and even if all the world's countries ban AGI research (somehow), that's just going to drive the work underground, and the first ones to get usefully further along the curve will be abl…

> In the history of political movements, have there been any that have been successful with slowing progress?

Not an argument, unless you believe "we failed in the past so why bother trying now" is sound reasoning.

> The cat's been released from BagGPT

Do you say the same thing about nuclear weapons? I mean, given that the nuclear weapon cat is now out of the bag we might as well see just how big a bang we can make, right? Anyone who wants to stop progress of nuclear weapon development is obviously a Luddite.

And while we're at it, is the fossil fuel cat out of the bag too? Is any effort to try to limit the release of CO2 as a global community pointless?

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Please keep an open mind and let me reason with you.

I assume you believe AGI poses some level of risk to humanity. The exact nature of that risk isn't too important – it could be economic risk, political risk, existential risk or all three. Basically I am assuming you believe there are enough things which could go wrong in creating superhuman AGI that a sane species would seek to limit the progress of capability research until we can proceed safely. If we disagree on this please explain why you do not believe AGI poses any risk to humanity. Note, hopeium that things will be okay is not an argument.

Okay, so since we agree that a sane species like us humans would limit AI capability research and proceed cautiously we now need to solve the prisoner dilemma which you correctly identified.

My solution to this would be as follows:

First we need to take this seriously. We need to be frank about the risks we face from AGI and try to educate the public about what may be coming. Currently the general public is so clueless about AI they're either not aware of recent advances, or they believe silly things like it being possible to unplug an AGI, or program it to be good.

Secondly, we need to establish an independent international organisation to oversee state-of-the-art AI research. Any country which does not agree to this will be sanctioned and as a global community we must agree do everything we can to pressure those countries to cooperate. In my opinion this includes war, but that's only because I believe AI is a significantly large existential risk to humanity that this is necessary. Appropriate actions in practise would obviously need to be debated and agreed upon as a global community.

Thirdly, we need a way to increase global trust and transparency of AI research. To do this I would propose the creation of a global AI whistle blowing fund. All countries which are part of the international agreement to oversee state-of-the-art AI research would be required to contribute to this fund annually. This fund would allow citizens from any country in the world to come forward with evidence against corporations, governments or individuals in violation of the agreement. These citizens would then receive a reward for their information and protection from any country (of their choosing) which signed on to the agreement. By incentivising whistle blowing it would be hard (although admittedly not impossible) for any large research project to take place.

Fourthly, fund and research ways to identify and limit unauthorised AI projects via technology and audits of things like GPUs orders. Simply limiting the distribution and capabilities of GPUs at a global level would be one of the easiest ways to ensure AI capability research can't advance too quickly. Of course we would need countries like China to play ball, but so long as we can do this in a transparent way and they understand the risks to humanity should they not corporate they would have no reason not to. This isn't too different from limiting the development of nuclear weapons as a global community which we have been quite successful at doing.

Finally, all AI research projects which are approved should be done at an international level for the benefit of all of humanity and research teams must detail how they are approaching safety and publish all safety research. Additionally, there should be government grants into things like alignment research to better prepare us for superhuman AGI.

What I'm proposing obviously isn't perfect. In the same way we can't guarantee nuclear weapons won't be created in the future, we also can't limit the risk of AGI entirely. Instead a more reasonable goal of slowing capability research while increasing safety research as much as possible should be pursued. There is a possible future where AGI will be great for humanity and our goal should be to maximise the chance of that outcome. The goal is not to "limit progress". Even if we disagree about exact actions to take there is no alternative world in which it is reasonable to allow a handful of billionaires to continue AI capability research unregulated while crossing our fingers that the AIs they create will be aligned with our values and that they pity us enough to give us food and shelter once we are all unemployed and fully dependent on their creations.

Re: I wish GPT4 had never happened

#815
post #227

I asked GPT4 to write me a simple document. Took like 9 tries and I had to proof read it and make adjustments. And that's with a simple paragraph in a written language. Forget about doing the header and the footer properly. It's silly that I have to spell it out on HN of all places. Writing code is much more complex. There's a reason we call the job "Software Engineer". GPT doesn't know what it doesn't know. It doesn…

When we built the first airplane it could barely carry a single person and didn't go far... We are just barely touching digital general intelligence, and we're not even using API enabled versions that use tooling. And that's what we have today. Tell me, what is AI going to do tomorrow? >If you're worried about GPT taking over your job you just show your own lack of knowledge and experience. Oh, I'm glad you popped ou…

Haven't most productivity improvements led to more rather than less programmers? Why would this one be any different?

I was thinking today that with respect to programming, LLMs are a bit like spreadsheets. They make "programming" accessible to more people. I can use vim and bash and script my way to do changes in a file with millions of line. Most non-programmers couldn't, but now they can use an LLM-based solution instead, they can program in English. So what used to be a back-and-forth between e.g. a secretary and an understaffed IT department can be done by the secretary alone, while IT can look at longer-term goals.

New lines of C/C++ are still written everyday in spite of all higher-level languages. Add LLMs to this pile of higher-level languages. You'll still need Java programmers in the future, even if they interact with an LLM on a daily basis. But maybe you won't need them to write a script for which there's an equivalent prompt that anybody can come up with and which can be fed into an LLM.

Re: I wish GPT4 had never happened

#816
post #379

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Work" above is being used in a more specific form than you are using it. GP is not referring to all productive work, they are specifically referring to employment on the market. Yes, human beings are better in relationships and better when they help each other, but GP is not talking about abolishing helping other people or doing meaningful things. There are a huge number of things people can do to meaningfully make…

I generally agree with you in principle, but it’s not a given that you can find meaning outside of the job market if the market doesn’t find your labor valuable. What if nobody actually wants your “help”? What if your labor is not only worthless in the job market, but also in general, where people prefer assistance from AI instead of from a live human person? What if no matter what you do, some AI does it better? How…

> it’s not a given that you can find meaning outside of the job market

That's bleak af, how old are you ? where do you live ? what do you do ? do you have a family ? do you have friends ? hobbies ?

I can guarantee you the vast majority of min wage workers would absolutely find a meaning in things other than flipping burgers or triaging the shit people buy on Amazon

Re: I wish GPT4 had never happened

#817

Hi everyone, author of the article here. I'm sorry if the article sounds overly pessimistic. I'm not making any claims with this article. I'm not proposing anything either. I do think technological progress is a good thing, even in this case. But I wrote this blog because I did have an emotional response to this technology, and wanted to pen down my thoughts. Its one thing to look at a report about the economic impac…

I am glad you wrote it, please don't be sorry. A lot of us feel the same way.

Here's what I imagine sama and AI apologists would say in response so they can sleep at night:

Have you thought about training Priya to use ChatGPT? You don't need to know how to code well to be skilled at using it, especially if she has the domain knowledge.

Then you will have 10x'd your company's output and Priya keeps her job. At least for a time -- that is, until others start doing it too -- this will be a big competitive advantage. Then you will definitely need her and her colleagues!

/end

But, there are many reasons why laying her off and just using GPT4 is the better business decision, at least short term. The above is a totally naive suggestion stemming from reasoning motivated by the incomprehensibly large profits going to OpenAI and their eventual competitors.

Actually, I think we are about to see massive unemployment (tens of millions if not hundreds globally), even greater inequality and attendant social unrest. Even if smooth transitions can be made for some of the jobs made redundant by ChatGPT, this will be the exception not the rule. Something will have to give. UBI? Regulations? Physical destruction of data centers by angry, hungry, desperate people?

Probably all of the above. It's going to be a chaotic time until the world finds a new equilibrium.

On a personal note: at the ripe age of 40, in direct response to GPT4, I've decided to go back to school this fall to become a certified teacher. The poor work conditions and low pay kept me away from it as a full time job until now. However, I believe this is one of the few jobs that will still be around in 25 years when I (hopefully) retire. I'll take low pay and poor work conditions over the desperation of extended unemployment and poverty.

(I like kids and have taught voluntarily in various capacities over the years, so it's not as crazy as it maybe sounds.)

Re: I wish GPT4 had never happened

#818

The big oversight here is that Priya does not want a job , what Priya wants is an income . The point of life is not working, the point of life is to enjoy it. We should strive to eliminate as many jobs as we possibly can, the less we have to work the better it is. To make this possible we need to find a way to a new system that doesn't directly link labour with income .

What a profoundly naive opinion. Most people find meaning, fulfillment, even contentment in working, especially when the problems are engaging and the solutions produce value. Many people claim their lives would be better if they never had to work, but they are bullshitting themselves with childhood naivete. Not working is a sucking void of boredom, nihilism, hedonism, and despair. I've been through some of that befo…

A job != work

You can work without having a job, all day everyday

Re: I wish GPT4 had never happened

#819
I am shocked at the lack of critical thinking about the central claim being made: that ChatGPT is able to do the girl’s job.

It is not able to do her job. The most charitable interpretation would be that, one time, ChatGPT did something that looks good on first inspection. But you can’t trust it. It has no accountability. It has unknowable reliability. It would be like replacing an adult with a child. Now we discover that data privacy is an issue, too, as Samsung discovered.

LLMs are incapable of doing work that requires predictability, integrity, accountability, etc.

Stop swallowing the hype, guys.

Re: I wish GPT4 had never happened

#820

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Jobs often make people feel useful. While many can be the happy unemployed person playing Counterstrike 24/7, many others need some sort of occupation for self-realization. This is actually a common problem, which can even became a major psychological issue, with people entering retirement. Maybe one day we can live in a world where machines are doing all the work and there are fulfilling hobbies for everybody, but I…

Anyone who has been unemployed may know how badly it affects a persons self-worth.

This is more a problem with the non-existing income stream
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