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EU-wide maximum limit of €10K for cash payments

consilium.europa.eu

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Re: EU-wide maximum limit of €10K for cash payments

#811

Post by Quarrelsome »

nix23 wrote: post #726
Quarrelsome wrote: post #429

Earlier quoted context omitted.

that isn't laundering money. Laundering money is when you take black market money and try to turn it into white market money. The conversation you hold up as a straw man to mock this legislation is taking black market money and transitioning it into: black market money.

So another criminal say to me sorry i don't take your black-market money it's illegal, or the money-washing pizzeria?

if a criminal gives another criminal money then the money is still black. You need to launder it to make it white. Now its harder to launder large quantities because you have to turn it into even smaller chunks.

Re: EU-wide maximum limit of €10K for cash payments

#812

Post by pchangr »

jaynetics wrote: post #312
mberning wrote: post #283

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Horrible take. 10k is a pittance. Small business owners, farmers, people buying and selling vehicles, etc. It’s not a large amount of money. If you go down to the apple store and buy a couple well specced computers the bill is going to be over 10k.

So are you from Europe? Or do you know anyone in Europe who has made such a transaction in physical cash?

A guy bought a house in berlin. In cash. Actual cash. Nobody suspected anything because in Germany, cash is king. Of course there was money laundering, tax avoidance and all the common suspects on it.

Re: EU-wide maximum limit of €10K for cash payments

#813

Post by engineer_22 »

chii wrote: post #768
engineer_22 wrote: post #664

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>1. the groups in question were declared criminal organizations, and therefore their bank accounts should be frozen and future donations should be blocked/banned Should criminals be denied all access to the financial system? Even if the criminal is not receiving money for criminal cause? Do criminals have the right to buy food?

they do, but that right also comes with responsibility, which by virtue of them committing a crime, they have to answer for. If they escape the authorities, freezing their financial accounts is not completely out of the ordinary, and forces them to confront the authorities. So yes, they have the right to buy food, but also the obligation to answer for their crimes in an open court. Can't have one without the other.

But if they haven't been to court yet, then they should be presumed innocent until proven guilty.

Is it ok to prevent an innocent person from buying food?

Re: EU-wide maximum limit of €10K for cash payments

#814

Post by [deleted] »

biztos wrote: post #631
Teandw wrote: post #386

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Bizarre how the EU is penalizing everyone in order to 'make it harder for criminals to launder dirty money'." This likely affects a number of people that is so small, that it's irrelevant. Not sure it makes sense to say that such a law that effects a tiny number of individuals is penalizing everyone.

In some parts of the EU, it’s still pretty common to do the down payment of a private real estate transaction in cash, and that can easily exceed €10K. I’ve done it myself and I’m not even a local. If it’s illegal then it’s just going to go off the books, at a small cost to taxes and accuracy of records, for some people; but for others it will force them to end this traditional practice, and I can imagine that might…

[deleted]

Re: EU-wide maximum limit of €10K for cash payments

#815

Post by sealeck »

glasss wrote: post #449
sealeck wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have to analyse at the population here; capital controls are useful for preventing people who have accumulated sizeable asset holdings in country X from moving them to a jurisdiction Y where there are effectively no taxes. Of course this reduces the freedom of the people who control these assets, but there is a common fallacy (usually introduced by the very same people) where they claim that liberty (in the abstr…

This definitely makes sense, but my initial gut reaction of not liking this is still strong. I just don't trust that this will be used to meaningful ways. I also imagine the people that may be most likely to take their capital to another country aren't worried about capital controls like this. Surely they have much better ways of transferring their wealth than 10K cash payments at a time, but I'm not rich enough to k…

> I also imagine the people that may be most likely to take their capital to another country aren't worried about capital controls like this. Surely they have much better ways of transferring their wealth than 10K cash payments at a time, but I'm not rich enough to know for sure.

Yes of course, this is just an argument about capital controls in general (the really problematic cases are people who own a lot of capital, e.g. factories, power plants, internet businesses, etc. moving it around, which they definitely don't do with cash!)

Re: EU-wide maximum limit of €10K for cash payments

#816

Post by mdp2021 »

peoplefromibiza wrote: post #751
mdp2021 wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> more than 1k cash High end electronic equipment, for example. Or do you by personal devices linking them to your name?

Your personal devices are already linked to your name. Do you really believe you are anonymous? SIM cards are not, for example, since forever here in Europe. warranty certificates must contain all your personal data to be valid. You would renounce to free 2 years warranty only to pay cash? Why? what's the deal with that laptop, what's the reason to keep it secret? Suddenly your secrecy it's much more interesting for…

> Your personal devices are already linked to your name

It is hoped that nobody is so stupid to try that.

> Do you really believe you are anonymous?

I radically believe on that right of so being.

> You would renounce to free 2 years warranty only to pay cash?

Very certainly.

> Why?

Because that is what a Man does.

> what's the reason to keep it secret

Basicmost principle.

> interesting

Monkeys surely are intrigued when they see men acting: they cannot understand. If they had been part of a Civilization, they would know that a Man does not concede on the side of privacy.

> even if you are a criminal

Very obvious, it is expected that criminals be on FB and Tw and smile at Sino-Thatcherian cameras etc.

Nothing new, it is part of the scheme: criminals have something to hide; Men have everything to hide; subjects have nothing to hide.

Re: EU-wide maximum limit of €10K for cash payments

#817

Post by pclmulqdq »

thiht wrote: post #807
pclmulqdq wrote: post #783

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We just define freedom differently than you do. I honestly think your version is weird and totalitarian, exactly the way you think mine is. Here's mine: "Freedom" is what you have in the absence of coercion. The freest state of being is being the last person alive on Earth. Freedom gives you nothing, because if freedom gave you something then someone else would have been coerced into giving it to you. Freedom also gi…

> Uniquely, GDPR goes a step further and tries to impose this burden on everyone in the world, not just people and companies that have signed up for the European project. This is precious! The US has imposed their views on the internet for the past 30 years. How is GDPR unique? The difference is once again that GDPR is favorable to EU citizens (because yeah, GDPR only applies to EU citizens) and your laws (Cloud Act,…

In the case of the cudgel that is the GDPR, distinct from EVERY other data governance rule, there are two unique things:

1. It applies to everyone, with no thought of company residency or size.

2. It applies to all forms of "personal information" and "processing," defined ridiculously broadly.

This means that the following things are technically illegal by the text of the law:

* Storing the email address of an EU-based customer of your consulting shop on a private server not in the EU, and (God forbid) using it to send a sales email to that person.

* Storing the IP address of an abusive user of a SaaS website (in order to block them) if that user happens to be in the EU and your server is not.

Should these be illegal?

Re: EU-wide maximum limit of €10K for cash payments

#818

Post by crazygringo »

kube-system wrote: post #633
crazygringo wrote: post #356

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I sure wouldn't want to risk discovering I'd been paid in high-quality counterfeit notes. Accepting 2700€ cash feels insane to me. In Europe do you not have cashier's checks? That's what we use in the US for something like a used car, since most people don't want to carry around a car's worth of cash, even for a short period of time. You go to the bank, and get a check drawn on the bank for the amount. The person rec…

I wouldn't accept a cashiers check for a car in the US right now, unless the seller met me at their bank so I could cash it. A very popular scam at the moment is to buy a car with a fake cashiers check, then disappear with the car, and a couple days later the check comes back as fake.

...that's why you call the bank in front of the buyer to verify it was legitimately issued?

You don't need to visit the bank, just phone. There's no reason you should fall for a scam like that.

Re: EU-wide maximum limit of €10K for cash payments

#819

Post by crazygringo »

B8MGHCBekDuRi wrote: post #797
crazygringo wrote: post #496

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not a check you write. It's a cashier's check. They're not used frequently -- really only for things like closing a bank account, buying a used car, putting down an apartment deposit and first month's rent, that kind of thing. I haven't written a personal check in close to 20 years either, but I've certainly needed to use a cashier's check a handful of times!

> It's a cashier's check. cashier checks are equivalent to cash and follow the same limits.

They're not equivalent to cash in any way. That doesn't even make sense.

Re: EU-wide maximum limit of €10K for cash payments

#820

Post by crazygringo »

thorncorona wrote: post #547
crazygringo wrote: post #356

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I sure wouldn't want to risk discovering I'd been paid in high-quality counterfeit notes. Accepting 2700€ cash feels insane to me. In Europe do you not have cashier's checks? That's what we use in the US for something like a used car, since most people don't want to carry around a car's worth of cash, even for a short period of time. You go to the bank, and get a check drawn on the bank for the amount. The person rec…

I would not take the risk selling expensive items with digital transactions for the counterparty to file a fictitious Paypal dispute or credit card chargeback.

Did you respond to the wrong comment? My comment was about paper cashier's checks, not digital transactions.
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