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Kanye West is buying Parler

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Re: Kanye West is buying Parler

#811

Post by cwkoss »

bheadmaster wrote: post #709
errantmind wrote: post #695

Absolute free speech platforms don't work for the majority of people because they have no way of constraining participants to the Overton Window. It may be hard to understand for some, but there are topics that make people highly uncomfortable. These people prefer an environment that 'protects' them from fringe ideas. The issue is, the 'Overton Enforcement' doesn't work when a large minority (say, 30% of users) has i…

It seems that the main problem is trying to force everyone into the same enironment and searching for a one-size-fits-all solution, leading to censorship of almost any topic for which there is a vocal enough group that wants it censored. A simple solution would be federation - let people build and choose their own bubbles instead of forcing everyone into a one giant bubble. That's how it works in real-life.

The social graph itself should perform moderation rather than having a single all-powerful centralized censor.

Re: Kanye West is buying Parler

#812

Post by tptacek »

bambax wrote: post #333
tptacek wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He believes his kids friends are "professional actors" who were placed there to "sexualize" them, that The Gap knew about the Uvalde shooting before it happened, and that Pete Davidson slept with his wife through the mechinations of an international Jewish conspiracy. You're doing the same thing Fox did: quoting the least unhinged things and pretending the most unhinged things didn't get said. And, as I'm sure will h…

Millions of people believe the Covid vaccine was designed to kill them, or that the Clintons eat fetuses in pizzerias. Millions more are absolutely certain a Jewish secret cabal runs the world. Are they "insane", or just dumb? Kanye West is pushing conspiracies a little further, into the domestic realm. What's upsetting is that when ordinary John Does promote conspiracy theories they are shunned, but when it's a succ…

He's not unwell because he's antisemitic. Maybe he's antisemitic all the time, but it seems probable that he's antisemitic because he's unwell. He doesn't seem unwell because he's antisemitic. He seems unwell because he believes that his children's friends are fake child actors installed by a conspiracy to sexualize them, and that a (possibly related?) Jewish conspiracy caused Pete Davidson to sleep with his ex-wife. Most people do not believe anything like those two statements.

This is what happens in these discussions: people take the genuinely batshit things he's saying and then generalize them to a point where they're merely stupid, and not batshit. Then they say "well, that might be wrong, but it's not crazy!". Well, you're right: it's not crazy. It's also not what he said.

Re: Kanye West is buying Parler

#813

Post by qwerty456127 »

luckylion wrote: post #97
qwerty456127 wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These are opinions. And I lean to agreeing with them (except I don't think anybody knows a good solution to the problem). Blatant lies/absurd are things like all (or almost all) people of specific race are inherently evil or stupid, they control the state for their wicked aims and there is a gene for specific preferences which ought to be eradicated or we are doomed.

That sounds to me like picking and choosing what's okay because "opinion" and what's not because "blatant lie".

Is 2x2=7.21 an opinion or a simple absurd? I don't insist the lies I mentioned are as easy to identify. I understand they are easier for some people to believe. But the nature of the difference (as compared to complex, discussable philosophical ideas like "capitalism is a problem") seems to be the same. While abstract philosophical questions of the "life, universe and everything" category can be discussed infinitely and there is no simple right answer, there also are questions to which a simple answer exists, discoverable by any person who would care to exercise some logic (preferably alone, without being afraid to loose an argument).

Re: Kanye West is buying Parler

#814

Post by Maursault »

anm89 wrote: post #804
Maursault wrote: post #770

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Vagueness fallacy as well as as hominem argument. If you disagree with what I've said, you must specifically speak to it. Handwaving and attacking me personally will never be persuasive.

Do you apply this same stict framework to your medical diagnoses you are handing out for people you've never met over the internet? I don't need to catalogue the fallacies to point out why this is not a good idea. This is also ironically vague and there is literally no ad hominem in there. Word salad is critique of the quality of the discourse, not of the person making it. Also fallacy fallacy, just for good measure

>> that gives the impression of a deep understanding of the human psyche when in reality it shows at best the ability to memorize the criteria around a few invented categories and give a horoscope based off of them.

This is ad hominem. You are ignoring what is said and making a personal attack. That is what ad hominem is, ignoring the argument and attacking the man.

> Do you apply this...

This is ad hominem.

> I don't need to catalogue the fallacies to point out why this is not a good idea.

This is invincible ignorance fallacy.

Re: Kanye West is buying Parler

#815

Post by user3939382 »

citilife wrote: post #615
tptacek wrote: post #117

This is really a story about a celebrity's mental illness and public breakdown. If you haven't been following the news, West has spent the week saying increasingly unhinged things, not just about politics but about Pete Davidson, his wife, and (if I'm remembering right) his kids and the fake actor children that have been installed in his former home to corrupt them. He was interviewed for a show on Fox and a big chun…

> This is really a story about a celebrity's mental illness and public breakdown. I find this take interesting -- Kanye is insanely successful in multiple categories. He is very eccentric and always has been. > Kanye is now a Black Hebrew Israelite That said, calling him mentally ill or having a breakdown is a bit... odd. There are tens of thousands of "Black Hebrews", there are MANY more Scientologists. Is Tom Cruis…

Agree. Having far out views, even a lot of them, doesn’t make you crazy. I’m especially hesitant to judge sanity by conformity with popular political opinions. I get the sense that many are reveling in the opportunity to call a political opponent crazy with the safety of numbers.

Believing in a lot of conspiracy theories, in isolation, also doesn’t make someone “crazy”.

I don’t know the man, neither does anyone here so far.

My interest is in seeing more social media migrate to open, federated protocols.

Re: Kanye West is buying Parler

#816

Post by vogt »

crummy wrote: post #749
OrangeMonkey wrote: post #318

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To those who espouse the idea that comments should be filtered for the greater good, I say 'You first.' There was a time period when the left was for free speech and the right was wanting to constrain it. Maybe its just a giant pendulum - there is no right/left difference when it comes to free speech - everyone wants to censor / filter the speech of the opposite side. If things come in cycles, then I expect the right…

> To those who espouse the idea that comments should be filtered for the greater good, I say 'You first.' that's part of the reason why I come to HN, for well-moderated (or "censored" if you prefer) discussions on tech

This is truly one of the best moderated places on the internet IMO, and one of the only places after 20 years of posting on message boards that I can go without hurtling toward a flame war every time I log on nowadays. Part of it is, I'm opinionated and I think probably enjoy arguing more than might be reasonable sometimes. Another part though is that the moderation quality is so high here and so low on places like Reddit + Twitter. My 2 pence.

Probably the lack of ability to advertise here the way you are encouraged to do on Twitter/FB/IG/Reddit (because they need that revenue) factors in as well.

Re: Kanye West is buying Parler

#817

Post by puglr »

AlwaysRock wrote: post #213
tptacek wrote: post #117

This is really a story about a celebrity's mental illness and public breakdown. If you haven't been following the news, West has spent the week saying increasingly unhinged things, not just about politics but about Pete Davidson, his wife, and (if I'm remembering right) his kids and the fake actor children that have been installed in his former home to corrupt them. He was interviewed for a show on Fox and a big chun…

It's sad because to become successful Kanye had to ignore hundreds/thousands of important people telling him he wasnt good enough and he would never make it as a rapper. Then he became, arguably, the most popular rapper/hip hop artist of all time. Now image you've done what seems impossible despite countless people telling you it wont work out. You are in the top 1% of fame. Now someone tells you your other ideas are…

In 2006 I saw Kanye West perform at a music festival. This was while he was touring for his second album.

I got an early taste of his mental illness. He started maybe 5 songs, each of which he would cut short in the middle to rant about the sound being off. He was completely unhinged and rambling each time. After 20 minutes he simply walked off stage and that was that.

Ever since then, I've found that his illness has been very evident in the art itself. It precludes me from enjoying it, and there's been a number of times I've felt terribly sad seeing these signs celebrated by those who don't see the connection (which is not to suggest that they should).

All that said, I've never even considered this perspective, so thank you for sharing it. It makes a mountain of sense, and makes the whole situation that much sadder (and more complex).

Re: Kanye West is buying Parler

#818

Post by daniel-cussen »

tptacek wrote: post #117

This is really a story about a celebrity's mental illness and public breakdown. If you haven't been following the news, West has spent the week saying increasingly unhinged things, not just about politics but about Pete Davidson, his wife, and (if I'm remembering right) his kids and the fake actor children that have been installed in his former home to corrupt them. He was interviewed for a show on Fox and a big chun…

No post body was provided.

Re: Kanye West is buying Parler

#819

Post by [deleted] »

gardenhedge wrote: post #775
dionidium wrote: post #637

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, nothing, basically. You just don't like her, which is fine, but this is a list of zeros.

What is your point? Someone called her an asshole and then gave a reason. You don't like that reason but you say it's fine not to like her. Seems like a pointless conversation.

[deleted]

Re: Kanye West is buying Parler

#820

Post by kgwxd »

filoleg wrote: post #656
kgwxd wrote: post #566

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> All of this is confirmed by tons of other people affiliated with Roc-a-Fella Records (like Jay-Z and others) at the time. They're in on the story.

I mean, it's the same story now that's been told since the time all of this was happening, and Kanye was indeed having issues with his first album getting even published. And it is also true that pretty much everyone expected his first album to flop. Unless literally everything said about the matter by everyone involved was an extremely consistent lie that they all conspired to perfectly maintain for 20+ years and on…

The entertainment industry is built on fictional stories, his overarching theme is "victim". I'm sure the people that benefit from being associated with Kanye in even the slightest way are perfectly happy to support the narrative he tries to spin, they might even believe it.
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