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Reinstating our SAT/ACT requirement for future admissions cycles

mitadmissions.org

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Re: Reinstating our SAT/ACT requirement for future admissions cycles

#811

Post by umvi »

fsckboy wrote: post #765

as an MIT alum, a wealthy one who thought he would leave his fortune to MIT, I applaud this move, but it doesn't get me back to giving. MIT shouldn't have stopped requiring the tests in the first place, shouldn't have participated in that anti-intellectual "shut down tech" day or whatever that was, and shouldn't have done a dozen other things like cancel speakers to bow to a woke mob. MIT needs to sign up to the Chic…

Using IQ as the sole metric for intelligence is bogus though, in my opinion. Hard working "low IQ" slow learners beat mentally fragile or lazy "high IQ" quick learners 9 times out of 10 in my book. Low(er) IQ people can still master advanced sciences, it just takes them longer to do so. Standardized tests filter for the quickest learners who can think the fastest but they don't do as well filtering for mental fortitude or work ethic. Completely anecdotal, but it seems like a lot of the smartest people I've ever known ("high IQ") turned out to be mentally fragile (paralyzed with nihilism, depression, purposelessness). But most of the hardest workers I know who required a few extra years of work to master their fields ("low IQ") are extremely dependable and have high mental resilience by contrast. Of course, you can't beat hard working, high IQ people, but they are very rare in my experience, at least in the fields I've worked in.

Re: Reinstating our SAT/ACT requirement for future admissions cycles

#812

Post by selimthegrim »

lightup wrote: post #781
pcurve wrote: post #629

Earlier quoted context omitted.

U MN has acceptance rate of 70%. Your son is probably more brilliant than most people who go to U MN. The hell with them and their shitty admission process. They don't deserve him. Like others have said, he should re-apply / transfer. I hope you don't take this the wrong way, but this might actually be blessing in disguise because many kids don't get to experience setback in life until too late. Yet, this one is some…

This admission statement is wrong. See source in original comment. U of MN TC accepted 20% last year and 20% this year. Kinda nuts. It's possible that the 70% number you cite is for MN State system which is like a parallel CC and university system. They are good too though. THanks for your other comments though. Appreciated.

See my comment above.

Re: Reinstating our SAT/ACT requirement for future admissions cycles

#813

Post by WoodenChair »

lightup wrote: post #784
strikelaserclaw wrote: post #651

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Complete disaster for his future? I don't think so, just a slight delay. I've had many setbacks in my life, i've known people in Asia who majorly messed up an exam they'd been preparing their entire life for, they just attempted it next year, and they did fine. If you have the brains to score a 35 on the ACT with no prep, then you really shouldn't have much problems in life if you put effort and deal with setbacks.

THanks, he reminded me tonight that he scored 35 _twice_. LOL. I kinda suggested to him he try for perfect like his best buddy. Best buddy is accepted at Ivy school (but probably will not go due to cost from what he said).

> Best buddy is accepted at Ivy school (but probably will not go due to cost from what he said).

All Ivy League schools are need blind; Most are free for those with family incomes <$100k. And my experience is that it really does open a lot of doors and make your life a little easier. I'm not saying you can't get a great education somewhere else; I'm saying money shouldn't be the main reason to not go for most people. The best buddy should at least ask for more aid due to need if they haven't already.

Re: Reinstating our SAT/ACT requirement for future admissions cycles

#814

Post by vxNsr »

542458 wrote: post #569
vxNsr wrote: post #458

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is kinda how medical residency is filled in the US, med students rank their top choices, residency programs rank their’s. It’s called The Match, and generally results in a very fair equitable outcome.

While the match isn’t completely terrible, it still has some pretty bad qualities. The most notable one is the “pay for applications” issue. The odds of getting into your top picks is constantly declining, and so the dominant strategy is to apply to many residencies to maximize your chance of a successful match - the number of picks the average applicant submits has doubled in the past 15 years. But applying to more…

Your suggestions are terrific and I’m sure there are others that are great too. Every system that involves humans will be game-able in some way, that’s simply life. That The Match is a much better system than college placement is undeniable and refusing to implement it because it’s not perfect is foolish.

Re: Reinstating our SAT/ACT requirement for future admissions cycles

#815

Post by chii »

30829984 wrote: post #616
jacobr1 wrote: post #573

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What does testing higher than one's ability actually mean? I'm guessing either you think the test is an imperfect proxy for a different (more important) skill, or otherwise you have imposter syndrome.

Not OP but I am an abnormally good "tester." It was always easy for me to see what the questions were asking for and could make a go of anything multiple choice. I'm also good at writing essays. It does not make me smart, it makes my abilities especially suited to standardized tests.

Being able to infer information fast, being able to write essays well, etc, are signs of good intelligence and high cognitive capability.

There's no abnormality here i can see. Your score reflects your real ability.

Re: Reinstating our SAT/ACT requirement for future admissions cycles

#816

Post by crackercrews »

lightup wrote: post #553

My son found out 2 days ago he didn't get accepted to his in-state land grant public university. The University of Minnesota. This was his fall back plan. Now he's screwed and may not be able to start college in fall. His sins: - a 35 ACT score (legit with no studying or ACT prep classes) - a 3.8 weighted GPA (because he took multiple AP classes and actually was in college for his junior and senior years through Minn…

> Why? Because U of MN doesn't consider weighted grades nor do they accept test scores anymore.

This is the worst. Do they do this for equity reasons or something else?

Re: Reinstating our SAT/ACT requirement for future admissions cycles

#817

Post by tomatowurst »

DownUnde wrote: post #736
throwawaylinux wrote: post #703

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many universities explicitly want policies of institutional, systemic racism. Obviously many people who are in favor of this hateful divisive racism will try to gaslight you into believing it somehow isn't racism, or try to redefine the meaning of words such that they are innocent and you are guilty. But that doesn't change what it is. So at the end of the day these institutions will bring in whatever policies they w…

When the effects of actively racist institutions and policies is not even a generation away. I Don't think leveling the field that should be level in the first place isn't racism. what is real racism to you honest question.

I'm trying to understand how Scantron can be racist. It does not know the identity, race, demographic or the economic class of the test taker. It literally just scans the test takers responses and scores it based on a preset solution. You are not given extra time because of your demographic nor are certain demographics punished or given extra points, everybody has access to the same learning resources, and one can take mock exams in preparation based on previous Scantron exams. The test producers do not know the race, demographic of the test taker or think about race when creating exam questions. They write questions to filter out those who demonstrate the best aptitude. Do you feel that this is unfair? What alternative do you forsee that could measure the aptitude of the test takers? Is this attitude limited only to academia or does it apply to professional sports? Do you think knowledge of game theory and physics should be an important part of aptitude tests for atheletes? Should pianists be subject to athletic requirements to measure their aptitude to enter Carnegie Hall?

Re: Reinstating our SAT/ACT requirement for future admissions cycles

#818

Post by parineum »

thedstrat wrote: post #804
outlace wrote: post #470

I used to be against standardized tests, but I grew up as a low-income minority in a single-parent household and I ended up getting into good schools pretty much only due to my high test scores, which has been a life changer. Other than test scores, I couldn't afford to do any fancy extra-curriculars. It felt a lot more achievable to know I can change my life if I just focus and do well on a test than it would if I h…

There are intelligent people though that don't do well on standardized tests (or at least don't get top tier results). I agree that standardized testing is a good metric to get a general idea of aptitude, but I think it hugely fails in appreciating people who are able to solve 'non-standardized' problems. And those are actually the people who should be placed in top institutions

> And those are actually the people who should be placed in top institutions

Do you really think there's this untapped group of "non-standardized" thinkers out there who belong in the to institutions but for standardized tests?

This sounds a lot like something I'd tell myself when I was 16 instead of dealing with the reality that I was just a lazy, underachieving high school student and would have made a lazy, underachieving college student.

In reality, those unconventional thinkers you're talking about find a way to achieve anyway by unconventional means.

Re: Reinstating our SAT/ACT requirement for future admissions cycles

#819

Post by toreply2021 »

outlace wrote: post #470

I used to be against standardized tests, but I grew up as a low-income minority in a single-parent household and I ended up getting into good schools pretty much only due to my high test scores, which has been a life changer. Other than test scores, I couldn't afford to do any fancy extra-curriculars. It felt a lot more achievable to know I can change my life if I just focus and do well on a test than it would if I h…

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Re: Reinstating our SAT/ACT requirement for future admissions cycles

#820

Post by lightup »

crackercrews wrote: post #816
lightup wrote: post #553

My son found out 2 days ago he didn't get accepted to his in-state land grant public university. The University of Minnesota. This was his fall back plan. Now he's screwed and may not be able to start college in fall. His sins: - a 35 ACT score (legit with no studying or ACT prep classes) - a 3.8 weighted GPA (because he took multiple AP classes and actually was in college for his junior and senior years through Minn…

> Why? Because U of MN doesn't consider weighted grades nor do they accept test scores anymore. This is the worst. Do they do this for equity reasons or something else?

I have no idea. And the weird thing in MN is that a lot of kids go to U of MN. There are probably 5 topish districts in Twin Cities. The one my son is in sends dozens of kids to U of MN. His high school pushes AP, IB, and another special program aimed at business education. They also don't frown on PSEO (FT college while in high school). That's like 4 programs you take to get ahead on college credits. They're all weighted and all aimed at kids wanting to go to college. Lots of districts do this and weight the grades to make it fair for the kids trying the hard stuff. The "poorer" district I grew up in even has IB and they weighted grades 35 years ago. Very common here.

How many kids are getting a 4.0 GPA? Lots. How many valedictorians are there in a class? 1 or 50? I think 50. Maybe it's grade inflation.

So maybe if you are in a good school with lots of programs make sure you just phone it in for 4 years if you want to make sure you get in.

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