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Apple M1 Ultra

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811–820 of 855 posts

Re: Apple M1 Ultra

#811
post #383

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only reason I've ever cared about watts is that generally speaking 120 watt and 180 watt processors require more complicated cooling solutions. That's less true today than it ever was. Cases are designed for things like liquid cooling, and they tend to be pretty silent. The processors stay cool, and are pretty reliable. I personally stick to the lower wattage ones because I don't generally need high end stuff, so…

wattage doesn't really tell you how difficult it is to cool a part anymore. 11th-gen Intel is really easy to cool despite readily going to 200W+. Zen3 is hard to cool even at 60W. Thermal density plays a huge role, the size of the chips is going down faster than the wattage, so thermal density is going up every generation even if you keep the same number of transistors. And everyone is still putting more transistors…

> wattage doesn't really tell you how difficult it is to cool a part anymore

Sure it does. Reading the rest of your post I think you're more talking about temperature than cooling requirements, but a 200W CPU needs 200W of heat dissipation, while a 60W CPU only needs 60W of heat dissipation. It's literally a 1:1 relationship since CPUs don't do any mechanical work, so power in == heat out.

Keeping temperatures below some arbitrary number does then include things like density, IHS design, etc... But that only matters for something like Intel's "Thermal Velocity Boost" where it's really important to stay under 70C specifically instead of just avoiding thermal throttling.

Re: Apple M1 Ultra

#812
I’m wondering what this all means for the upcoming Mac Pro.

Apple mentioned that the M1 Ultra is the last member of the M1 family. So how is the Mac Pro going to scale?

Will Apple enable “traditional” scaling by allowing multiple M1 Ultra chips to be combined in one system? Or what?

Further, how will an Apple Silicon based Mac Pro be made expandable; something that has been a corner stone feature of Mac Pros in the past?

Re: Apple M1 Ultra

#813

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Guess we will see once one is available to be tested, but I doubt that’s the case. I was guessing 5-8W each, but I could be wrong of course.

Most PC fans are 1-2w. Given the claims of "near silent", I think it's plenty safe to say these are not 5,000+ RPM rippers that are going to be in the 5-8W each range.

Given the M1 Ultra has a 2lb heavier heat sink just to dissipate the extra heat, not sure that’s a safe bet. There are other ways to reduce noise than just using lower RPM fans.

Re: Apple M1 Ultra

#814

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The market is not data center use.

You'll still spend another Mac Studio on energy in order to run a comparable PC for the next five years. To say nothing about not wanting to be in the same room as its fans.

What are you talking about? This is not for cloud datacenters trying to squeeze every bit of compute per resource.

These machines are commonly used by professionals in industries like movie and music production. They don't care what the power bill is, it's insignificant compared to the cost of the employee using the hardware.

Re: Apple M1 Ultra

#815

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most PC fans are 1-2w. Given the claims of "near silent", I think it's plenty safe to say these are not 5,000+ RPM rippers that are going to be in the 5-8W each range.

Given the M1 Ultra has a 2lb heavier heat sink just to dissipate the extra heat, not sure that’s a safe bet. There are other ways to reduce noise than just using lower RPM fans.

Massive (by weight) heatsink can be used as thermal mass. This delays the need to increase fan speed and allows spreading that increase over time. One thing that is more noticeable than fan speed is rapid fan speed changes -- avoiding those makes entire system seem quieter.

Re: Apple M1 Ultra

#816
post #753

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> No one plays games on a Mac. My wife does (I play games on Linux). I have friends who own Macs who reluctantly dual boot to Windows just to play some games -- they would completely ditch Windows if they could just play every game on Mac. I see there are Mac games on Steam. All of this points to the situation being more nuanced than "no one plays games on Mac".

I interpret these sorts of statements to be short for "a statistically insignificant number of people play games on macos (or linux)" rather than the literal case where as long as a single person does, it is false. According to the steam hardware survey, Windows is 95%, Macos is 4%, and Linux is 1%. And to dig deeper you'd need to see what games that 5% of the non-Windows is playing - are they simpler games that don'…

I understood it was about statistical significance, but my point remains:

Who says Mac users aren't gamers? It's a self perpetuating vicious cycle: gamers use Windows because that's where the majority of games are, so developers keep targeting Windows, so gamers use Windows, and so ad infinitum.

But people who use Macs enjoy games as well. They would rather not dual boot to Windows.

It's not true that Mac users don't play games. Rather, it's that most games are on Windows, which is a shame.

Re: Apple M1 Ultra

#817
post #701

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you know noise pollution causes dementia? https://www.theguardian.com/society/2021/sep/09/transport-no...

Ouch. I wonder what Apple thinks about that after selling millions of noisy intel macbooks. As for desktops, watercooling makes computers dead silent.

Yep, it's bad that those products were like that.

I personally bought a Ryzen 5950(?) instead of a Threadripper because I figured I'd accidentally spill water all over it or however it works. There are not many watercooled OEM products as far as I know.

Re: Apple M1 Ultra

#818
Credit to Apple for making a big APU, literally the biggest possible (AFAICT) on the most advanced node with the M1 Max, and now M1 Ultra. Maybe UltraFusion can be scaled up further, TBD, I think. Hopefully Intel/AMD/Nvidia can step up their game here as well.

Re: Apple M1 Ultra

#819
post #695

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wouldn't assume heat is solved as it's been Apples weak point in the past. The cube would crack, g5 iMac's would melt capacitors, MacBooks would burn users' laps.

Those issues were all almost 20 years ago. If you think this is still a problem, you haven't used any recent Macs. The current MB Air and MB Pro both run very cool even under prolonged heavy loads. Apple's management of any and all heat issues has been far better than any competitors for a while now.

Haha what are you smoking, my 2018 macpro laptop was constantly throttling under heavy load, its thermal management was terrible

Re: Apple M1 Ultra

#820

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are dedicated ML cards from Nvidia for that, far most powerful than a 3090, so that is indeed true. But PPW is never irrelevant when someone is doing things at scale, so the question becomes: who is doing this for money but somehow not at scale?

These aren't rack mount products aimed at cloud providers, they are essentially mini workstations. What are you calling "at scale" for this? You're basically always pairing one of these machines to one physical person sitting at it whose time is being paid for as well (even for a solo creator, time is still money). It's a terrible tradeoff to save pennies per hour on power to turn around and pay the person dollars mo…

That seems like a really bad way to spend money. Why limit a person to a single workstation if the workstation is the limiting factor? This is where we get clouds or if it must be done locally, rack mounted systems with many cards.

If you are doing it solo, with "just the hardware you happen to have", it matters a bit less. If you are doing it constantly to make money, and you need a lot of power, buying a one-person desk-machine makes no sense.

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