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YouTube suspends The Hill for playing clip of Trump denying election results

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Re: YouTube suspends The Hill for playing clip of Trump denying election results

#811

Post by Siira »

ok123456 wrote: post #564

After the mid-terms, any Section 230 protection these companies have is going bye-bye. Any kind of active moderation of perfectly legal speech through 'terms of service'/'community standards' will remove any common-carrier liability shield. Actions like this have turned this into political red meat for some. These companies really need to learn how to read the room. Ratcheting downward the ability of people to freely…

These companies want the liability. That would kill all their nascent competitors for good.

Re: YouTube suspends The Hill for playing clip of Trump denying election results

#812

Post by Siira »

mohanmcgeek wrote: post #659
px43 wrote: post #646

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn't about you, it's about the 30-40% of YouTube users who don't have that skill, and become radicalized and violent when stupid bullshit like this starts gaining traction. YouTube isn't a news network. It's a video platform catering to a global audience, many of whom are really really bad critical thinking. Same with Facebook. We all know what happens when content isn't curated, and it's really, really bad. I'…

> the 30-40% of YouTube users who don't have that skill, Who are you or YouTube to make this judgement? More often than not, the "I'm smarter than the average person" types are the ones making the worst decisions.

The problem is not that these people aren’t smart. It’s a good bet that they are. The problem is that they aren’t sufficiently benevolent. Their narratives are fundamentally optimized to benefit themselves first, and then others.

Free speech limits power and increases competition, which is the most effective way to decrease rent seekers.

Re: YouTube suspends The Hill for playing clip of Trump denying election results

#813

Post by incompatible »

3np wrote: post #732
incompatible wrote: post #493

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It depends what freedoms you are talking about. In a communist system you wouldn't have the freedom to own somebody else's house and charge them rent, for example. It's interesting how we throw around concepts like "left" and "right", or "liberal" and "conservative", either not understanding what they mean, or having many different understandings. I'm puzzled about how we manage to communicate at all, but maybe we do…

Specifically "liberal" has very different implications in NA vs Europe.

I'm a bit vague about how exactly it's used in different places. In Australia, it's the name of one of the major political parties, and it's considered a moderately "right wing" party. There was the classic 19th century liberalism, and its modern version neoliberalism.

I guess the Liberal Party in Australia has some similarities to the Conservative Party in the UK.

Re: YouTube suspends The Hill for playing clip of Trump denying election results

#814

Post by yibg »

xigoi wrote: post #703
yibg wrote: post #688

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But you are saying in this analogy that the restaurant should post negative reviews from its customers, say on its website. Why should they? It’s not like they’re taking down negative reviews (videos) from things they don’t own.

I don't think you understand the analogy…

I don't think you read my original reply?

Re: YouTube suspends The Hill for playing clip of Trump denying election results

#815

Post by bradlys »

hankman86 wrote: post #611
mathogre wrote: post #584

Fuck YouTube. If they're going to control what news I get, I'll choose other than YouTube. I do not need them. I have read from both hard left and hard right, and am intelligent enough to make my own decisions about what makes sense. Let them play their games, whether silly or dangerous. I form my own opinions. Losers!

Agree - I don’t need some “ministry of truth”. Figured out for myself that these “alternative” news shows on YouTube (The Hill, Breaking Points etc.) are populist garbage. This isn’t journalism, but sensationalist cherry-picking of facts with an unhealthy dose of opinion sprinkled on top. All that being said: i think that censorship does way more harm than whatever nonsense these channels put out.

While good for you to figure things out - I’m surrounded by people who don’t have the skills for that.

How do you solve that? Education? Too late - they’re adults.

Re: YouTube suspends The Hill for playing clip of Trump denying election results

#816

Post by Azurin »

ZeroGravitas wrote: post #729
Azurin wrote: post #712

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's sad to see how many conservative"reeee muh freedom" is in HN. Hope they all get their Herman Cain Awards too

I dont want to be harsh, since you may well have lost people close to you because of this specific propaganda, but wishing further pain, misery, suffering and death on the victims of propaganda and their families isn't really cool. Some things are complicated and murky, but there's fairly clear boundaries too sometimes.

If their single death will stop senseless spread of a harmful virus to MORE innocent people who do their best to stay safe, it's good riddance. Some family members or even relatives are stuck with some people who are ignorant and just cause it to spread.

Re: YouTube suspends The Hill for playing clip of Trump denying election results

#817

Post by pfisch »

moltke wrote: post #798
pfisch wrote: post #796

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So instead of doing that we should just make the whole internet 4chan? No it won't, not in meaningful numbers. Most people don't want that kind of garbage in their feeds. If they did 4chan would be more popular than Twitter. Most people don't want to have disgusting, antidemocratic viewpoints forced on them by social media. They want to not see that stuff.

My boomer parents are now asking me about 4chan because of the censorship (someone in the mainstream was talking about it last year.) People are looking and they'll get sucked into this stuff.

Let them try it, they won't even last an hour after seeing the reality of their censorship free "utopia"

Re: YouTube suspends The Hill for playing clip of Trump denying election results

#818

Post by VikingCoder »

coolso wrote: post #748
ZeroGravitas wrote: post #714

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We have proof that Trump tried to blackmail Zelensky into framing his political opponents by witholding aid they needed to defend themselves from Russia. When Putin started his invasion, Trump praised him for being smart, then praised him again, suggesting he'd captured a whole country for a small cost in sanctions. What do you think you're expressing when you say that Trump isn't a Putin puppet? That he's not made o…

Whatever Trump was doing to handle Putin certainly seemed to prevent Putin from doing any Ukrainian invading. I think Zelensky and the entire world would prefer more Trump phone calls and less Putin aggression right about now.

Yes, because Putin was too busy enjoying the other things President Trump let him do.

Taken from someone else:

Trump had the US military abandon their bases in Syria and Russia promptly captured them.

Russia was caught paying bounties in Afghanistan for killing American soldiers. Trump did nothing.

After Putin seized Crimea, Obama put sanctions on Russia. Trump promptly got rid of those sanctions for his buddy, then declared that Crimea belonged to Russia, recognizing the legitimacy of their invasion.

Russia keeps creeping advancing the border with Georgia. They just literally move fences and markers at night and take land a few hundred meters at a time.

This happened during Trump's administration. Trump did nothing.

Belarus, which is a puppet for Putin, as he wants Ukraine to be, is run by his puppet dictator Lukashenko. Lukashenko won a clearly rigged election in 2020, leading to mass protests. A similar situation happened in Ukraine during Obama's administration, and we backed the protests and they ousted Yanukovych, and Ukraine was able to elect a free government that wasn't Putin's puppet. So when a similar situation arises while Trump was President, guess what he did?

The Trump Administration has gone AWOL on Belarus.

Guess who ran Putin's puppet, Yanukovych's campaign in Ukraine? Paul Manafort and Rick Gates. Then they became Trump's campaign manager and deputy campaign manager.

Putin invades Ukraine, Trump calls him a genius.

He's a Putin puppet. Putin had a puppet President of the US. It's fucking insane that this happened. But it did. Wake the fuck up.

"We don't rely on American banks. We have all the funding we need out of Russia." -Eric Trump, 2014

Re: YouTube suspends The Hill for playing clip of Trump denying election results

#819

Post by lliamander »

rootusrootus wrote: post #793
lliamander wrote: post #626

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You do realize left-wing protestors did actually destroy a fair bit of DC in 2017, right? And when DC boarded up again in late 2020, it wasn't in fear of right-wing protesters. Anyway, while I do disdain the use of violence for political ends, I do think the events have been exaggerated and misrepresented by the corporate press for political purposes.

I have trouble with this idea that there is equivalence between violence on private property (or even public property), and violence in the US Capitol. Especially when that violence is timed to happen while Congress is in session counting the votes from a presidential election, and the people committing the violence are explicitly saying things about overturning the election results. My feeling is that everyone actua…

Violence against innocent civilians is unequivocally worse than violence against the government, regardless of the politics that motivate it.

You also seem to miss the point that violence by the pro-Trump protestors had no hope of actually capturing control of the government. Interfering with its operations for a time, sure. But not actual control. That's just not how any of this works.

The only hope the pro-Trump faction had (and a slim hope at that) was to peacefully pressure Mike Pence into refusing to count the ballots from contested states.

Your feelings aside, many people do genuinely disagree with you.

Re: YouTube suspends The Hill for playing clip of Trump denying election results

#820

Post by Lascaille »

lliamander wrote: post #819
rootusrootus wrote: post #793

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have trouble with this idea that there is equivalence between violence on private property (or even public property), and violence in the US Capitol. Especially when that violence is timed to happen while Congress is in session counting the votes from a presidential election, and the people committing the violence are explicitly saying things about overturning the election results. My feeling is that everyone actua…

Violence against innocent civilians is unequivocally worse than violence against the government, regardless of the politics that motivate it. You also seem to miss the point that violence by the pro-Trump protestors had no hope of actually capturing control of the government. Interfering with its operations for a time, sure. But not actual control. That's just not how any of this works. The only hope the pro-Trump fa…

>The only hope the pro-Trump faction had (and a slim hope at that) was to peacefully pressure Mike Pence into refusing to count the ballots from contested states.

Which would potentially or eventually lead to the team they supported (Team Trump) capturing control of the government.

If Pence refusing to count those ballots wouldn't potentially lead to them capturing control of the government, why would they do it?

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