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Worker pay isn’t keeping up with inflation

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Re: Worker pay isn’t keeping up with inflation

#811

Post by rsj_hn »

MichaelRazum wrote: post #804
rsj_hn wrote: post #677

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FYI, (non-farm) Labor productivity declined by 5.2% year over year: https://www.bls.gov/news.release/prod2.t02.htm If you break these numbers down, you see that total production increased by 1.2%, but it required 7.4% more labor to produce that extra 1.2%. Compensation went up around 3% but of course in real terms it declined -- it pretty much has to decline if you need more labor to produce the same amount of stuff.…

Sounds strange. What about this graph https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/OPHNFB I would argue that just based on the technological progress total average productivity per person should go up.

Yes, just based on that it should go up, but there's a huge difference about it increasing at 0.5% per annum and 1.5% per annum, and it's not going to go up monotonically, which is the difference between your long run graph and the latest BLS announcement.

In certain situations, when an economy is mismanaged, it will go down for prolonged periods of time, but again one year changes are not a significant trend. But this article about worker pay and inflation is not about long term trends, but recent (since 2020) trends.

Re: Worker pay isn’t keeping up with inflation

#812

Post by xapata »

Sohcahtoa82 wrote: post #785
xapata wrote: post #777

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Landlords are price takers, not price makers. The market for apartments is highly competitive.

If that was true, apartment pricing would be flat or even trending down, as landlords would compete on price. But they don't. Instead, landlords fight against the construction against additional housing so they can limit supply and increase prices. I had a 900 sq foot, 2br, 1 bath apartment in the suburbs in 2012 that was $800/month. Each annual lease renewal was a higher price. When I moved out in 2015, the price wa…

> If that was true, apartment pricing would be flat or even trending down, as landlords would compete on price.

It is possible to have rising prices in a competitive market. For example, the automobile market is competitive and experiences rising prices. When I was shopping for an apartment not long ago, I saw several signs advertising discounts. This is evidence that landlords compete on price. However, lack of advertised discounts would not be evidence of a monopoly.

Re: Worker pay isn’t keeping up with inflation

#813

Post by xapata »

vmception wrote: post #797
whimsicalism wrote: post #792

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rising prices have nothing to do with whether it is a competitive market. I agree with most of the rest of your comment, but none of that means that the landlords are price setters. Nor does it show that discussing supply is a "deflection."

Supply and demand is a factor. You can talk about it. It is not a unique enough factor to this time period. I feel like you wanted someone to acknowledge that. Perhaps property sales and rentals should require attestations about who offered what price and we can use that data to consider deterrents or levies on those who moved the price up from the prior owner or tenant. Sure there are some prospective occupants that…

> I think the majority just take whatever the landlord offers.

Taking the price offered for a particular property is not the same as ignoring prices. Apartment shoppers search for the combination of quality and price that best satisfies their preferences. I have a hard time imagining an alternative. Would that be going to an apartment search engine and simply picking the first result, regardless of quality and price?

When I go to the grocery store, I don't negotiate with the cashier. That doesn't mean grocery stores aren't competing with each other.

Re: Worker pay isn’t keeping up with inflation

#814

Post by whimsicalism »

bumby wrote: post #799
whimsicalism wrote: post #726

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There was a housing shortage in the 1970s too, so the supply side isnt a worthwhile deflection. Uh, source on the housing shortage in the 1970s being even remotely close to this level? Because, yeah, demand outstripping the heck out of supply is the "deflection" I'd pick.

[1] is a bit noisy because it's monthly data, but if you give it a 12-month moving average, it definitely seems like housing availability was substantially above current levels from about 1973-1992. I'm curious if there are any theories besides wage stagnation that caused that change? [1] https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/MSACSR

Hm. I'm not sure that is actually really measuring supply so much as liquidity.

Re: Worker pay isn’t keeping up with inflation

#815

Post by nonford150 »

8note wrote: post #761
shakezula wrote: post #654

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree that it was the gun industry that started the war, but they absolutely fan the flames for profit. The 2nd amendment will never go away as long as conservatives use it as a wedge issue. It's far too important as leverage, and they've been incredibly successful in cementing it further into law even very recently. My state just passed Constitutional Carry into law this year.

Conservatives will happily do away with the 2nd amendment if you arm a bunch of black people, and have them constantly open carrying while black

Not sure about your location, I see about a 50/30/20 (white/black/Hispanic)racial mix at my Atlanta Bass Pro gun counter, which about matches this counties’ demographics. People just want to be able to protect themselves; don’t take Brunswick as the norm for everywhere.

Re: Worker pay isn’t keeping up with inflation

#816

Post by csomar »

8note wrote: post #760
csomar wrote: post #674

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Same reason gun control wont happen no matter how many people get killed - ultimately its because gun manufacturers would lose money. This is ... derailing. If Americans didn't love guns, they wouldn't go and buy guns. There is close to 400 million unregistered firearm in the USA. I don't think it's only Republican's. The companies who make guns will try to protect their business but at this point they are just sec…

A person with a fun is dangerous, whether they are an idiot not. It's the same as all code having bugs, regardless of whether the programmer was skilled

By that same logic, a person with an oil truck is more dangerous. Yet, we trust these people to drive these things in broad daylight?

Re: Worker pay isn’t keeping up with inflation

#817

Post by vmception »

xapata wrote: post #813
vmception wrote: post #797

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Supply and demand is a factor. You can talk about it. It is not a unique enough factor to this time period. I feel like you wanted someone to acknowledge that. Perhaps property sales and rentals should require attestations about who offered what price and we can use that data to consider deterrents or levies on those who moved the price up from the prior owner or tenant. Sure there are some prospective occupants that…

> I think the majority just take whatever the landlord offers. Taking the price offered for a particular property is not the same as ignoring prices. Apartment shoppers search for the combination of quality and price that best satisfies their preferences. I have a hard time imagining an alternative. Would that be going to an apartment search engine and simply picking the first result, regardless of quality and price?…

Yes and the shoppers find one, the trend is that the unit they find and pick - no matter what the shopper lands on - was rented higher than the last time, because the landlord set it higher than the last time. This didn't have to occur, the landlord could have done the prior price, the lower price, even in the face of demand and people willing to close quickly at the new higher price.

Re: Worker pay isn’t keeping up with inflation

#818

Post by xapata »

vmception wrote: post #817
xapata wrote: post #813

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think the majority just take whatever the landlord offers. Taking the price offered for a particular property is not the same as ignoring prices. Apartment shoppers search for the combination of quality and price that best satisfies their preferences. I have a hard time imagining an alternative. Would that be going to an apartment search engine and simply picking the first result, regardless of quality and price?…

Yes and the shoppers find one, the trend is that the unit they find and pick - no matter what the shopper lands on - was rented higher than the last time, because the landlord set it higher than the last time. This didn't have to occur, the landlord could have done the prior price, the lower price, even in the face of demand and people willing to close quickly at the new higher price.

Why would the landlord choose to rent at below market rates? I think we've drifted from the question of whether the rental apartment market is competitive.

If a landlord chooses to consistently rent below market rates, for whatever foolish reason, then they'll probably wind up selling the building to someone who knows what the market rate is. It might take a while, but it'll happen eventually.

Re: Worker pay isn’t keeping up with inflation

#819

Post by scollet »

Auracle wrote: post #676
vishnugupta wrote: post #350

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> immigration rather than race. Two sides of the same coin. A large section of people are left out of benefits of improving economy. Lions share of the gains go to the Uber rich people. And politicians play immigration card to whip up their voter base. More or less exact phenomenon played out in Bombay, India. Except that the immigrants were Indians from other states (Gujarat, Tamilnadu etc). But when the political p…

Perhaps they just see that wages are being suppressed through mass immigration of a cheaper labor force?

Businesses are responsible for that. I'm not sure how you're making that leap.

Re: Worker pay isn’t keeping up with inflation

#820

Post by sudosysgen »

anshumankmr wrote: post #515
lotsofpulp wrote: post #487

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What does being a multi millionaire allow one to do? An old couple with a few million saved up for the rest of their life is protected against health risks and some inflation, but they are not likely going to be able to spend sufficiently to influence others.

Using this information here [1]( https://www.cnbc.com/2019/05/24/where-bernie-sanders-money-c... ) and this calculator here [2]( https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2021/07/21/are-you-in-... ), >annual income of 1,100,000 U.S. dollars for a household of 2 is equivalent to $1,309/day per person in 2011 in purchasing power parity dollars, putting you in the high income group worldwide, along with 39.8% of people in a…

He doesn't quite have a million dollar income. He made a million dollars from selling a book, which is a one-off. His normal annual income is more like 250 000$, which is still a lot.
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