Women are nearly half of new gun buyers, study finds • Hacker News Board

Re: Women are nearly half of new gun buyers, study finds

#811

Post by inter_netuser » Fri, Sep 17, 2021, 3:22 AM UTC

_-david-_ wrote: post #584

grecy wrote: post #517

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The murder rate varies widely by state/area Everytime I see this line of reasoning I'm utterly shocked at the lack of understanding. What you said applies equally across any other country too. So France's 1.2 is an average of the entire country. Yes, half of any country is below the average!

States have different laws. Some states are more strict about guns while others are more lax. States in the US have significantly more difference than the regions in France (or whatever they are called). It is probably more accurate to compare the US to the EU and France to an individual state.

Vermont is at 1.8. Europe's average is 3.0.

Czech republic, the only shall issue European country is at 0.9.

Re: Women are nearly half of new gun buyers, study finds

#812

Post by seoaeu » Fri, Sep 17, 2021, 3:27 AM UTC

zepto wrote: post #443

jfengel wrote: post #401

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Congratulations on never having encountered a police officer. If you do, you'll be very aware of the fact that they're treating you as if you were armed. I am aware of it, and I'm not even black -- and I've seen how much worse it is for black people. Congrats, also, on graduating school before school shootings became a big thing. Me, too. It was great not having to go through metal detectors on my way to class. I am…

I’m not white and I’ve been stopped by police numerous times and have never been afraid of being shot. The chances of being involved in a school shooting are lower than the chance of being hit by lightning. I also have flown many times. Nobody has ever ‘checked me for guns’. Generally they are checking for knives and explosives. You might be too young to remember, but much of today’s airport security was brought in a…

> I also have flown many times. Nobody has ever ‘checked me for guns’. Generally they are checking for knives and explosives.

Oh, come on. You seriously don't think the metal detectors pick up guns too?

> It’s a totally unrealistic fear, and one that can only result from being misinformed.

Police officers routinely justify their actions on such grounds.

Re: Women are nearly half of new gun buyers, study finds

#813

Post by LookOutItsABot » Fri, Sep 17, 2021, 3:31 AM UTC

d12345m wrote: post #525

Jedd wrote: post #499

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> PS: I am strong supporter of Gun rights and proud gun owner. I don't understand the pride bit. It seems like a regrettable situation where your distrust of your fellow citizens is so strong that you are comforted by the ability to kill them with minimal effort. (I'm in Australia, where we have some truly horrendous legislation, but I totally agree with our gun ownership laws here, and echo other people's observatio…

Welp, I guess it’s time to finally give the Culture series a go.

Always a good idea.

Re: Women are nearly half of new gun buyers, study finds

#814

Post by landemva » Fri, Sep 17, 2021, 3:33 AM UTC

stefan_ wrote: post #669

sillysaurusx wrote: post #486

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I winced when you started the comparison with Brazil and Mexico. Those countries may be New World, but anybody who's visited Mexico knows not to go random places alone. In other words, if Brazil and Mexico are our points of comparison, we're... not in a situation I'd want to be in, to put it diplomatically. Reddit's running joke is that every gunfight happened in Brazil. In fact, I often wonder if most of the gunfigh…

It's doubly ironic because of course a large swath of the guns in what is bordering on civil war in Mexico are supplied by the US, made possible through the (lack of) gun ownership regulation.

You are correct about USA supplying guns to criminals in Mexico. Obama's ATF did the gun running. https://www.forbes.com/sites/realspin/2011/09/28/fast-and-fu...

When government runs guns, women are smart to arm themselves for defense.

Re: Women are nearly half of new gun buyers, study finds

#815

Post by seoaeu » Fri, Sep 17, 2021, 3:34 AM UTC

giantg2 wrote: post #734

kelnos wrote: post #657

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think these are two pretty different situations. If civilian gun owners in the US tried to overthrow the US government, the US military would crush them in a heartbeat. Hell, with the level of militarization of many local police departments in the US, it might not even take the US military. You can't really compare that to a reluctant, unpopular war fought in someone else's territory. The US was never going to comm…

" the US military would crush them in a heartbeat " I think what we've seen in prior civil wars is that portions of the military will support both sides.

Then what are private firearms needed for? The local arsenal filled with assault rifles and rocket launchers is going to be a way better option...

Re: Women are nearly half of new gun buyers, study finds

#816

Post by philwelch » Fri, Sep 17, 2021, 3:34 AM UTC

NoImmatureAdHom wrote: post #736

philwelch wrote: post #422

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not actually sure how accurate that is. France has an ethnically and religiously heterogeneous population, high levels of immigration from Africa, and open borders with the rest of the EU.

Open borders with the rest of the EU is...Spain, Germany, Switzerland, Belgium. And adorable Andorra. Oh, and Italy. All of which are comparable to Mexico where it counts, of course. /s

There's also Hungary, Poland, Romania....

Re: Women are nearly half of new gun buyers, study finds

#817

Post by inter_netuser » Fri, Sep 17, 2021, 3:35 AM UTC

zepto wrote: post #305

endymi0n wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Note this is just murder, but murder is merely a small fraction of gun deaths. The multiplier for all firearm-related deaths between the US and EU average for example is around 12X, more than an order of magnitude [1]. The elephant in the room however is that the main argument simply doesn't hold up. Owning a gun doesn't just make the owner slightly more likely to get shot, but also everyone around them [2] Or, as th…

> murder is merely a small fraction of gun deaths. You must mean the others are suicides. Why not say so? > The multiplier for all firearm-related deaths between the US and EU average for example is around 12X, more than an order of magnitude [1]. Ah, because by not saying so you can make up this 12X figure, by comparing firearm suicides in Europe where in many cases there is marginal civilian gun ownership with fire…

The swiss are not an outlier.

Czech republic is shall issue, and almost everyone has concealed carry permits.

Homicide rate is 0.9.

Re: Women are nearly half of new gun buyers, study finds

#818

Post by glangdale » Fri, Sep 17, 2021, 3:36 AM UTC

notacoward wrote: post #770

glangdale wrote: post #687

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing I always find astonishing about the LARPing element of "taking up arms against the state" is how one-sidedly political it is. An authoritarian right-wing state - say, an alternate world where Trump had somehow seized power and suspended democracy - would find large numbers of American gun owners who would be very happy about this and serve as a pro-government paramilitary (coordinating the police/military a…

Exactly. Nothing enables a tyrant like a sympathetic mob that is more heavily armed than those who would fight for freedom. Historically, would-be tyrants tend to make sure their sympathizers are well armed more than to disarm anyone. The idea of someone with MAGA and Punisher stickers on their pickup using their guns to oppose tyranny is laughable . No, they'll be first in line to trade in their fake military insign…

It's actually advantageous to have a separate "mob" as well as controlling the military/police; the last thing you want is to formally deputize or enlist them.

This way you can go to international events and join the hand-wringing over lynchings, torture and murder ("we can't control our overenthusiastic supporters and of course mistakes were made on both sides, etc"). You can also preserve your control of rule-followers and humanitarians in the police and military.

As a rule, weapons in private hands seem to be handy for overriding the policies of democratically elected governments while complaining about "tyranny" (c.f. Ammon Bundy).

Re: Women are nearly half of new gun buyers, study finds

#819

Post by philwelch » Fri, Sep 17, 2021, 3:37 AM UTC

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #780

OrvalWintermute wrote: post #714

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> made possible through the (lack of) gun ownership regulation. The US has plenty of gun ownership regulation. Criminals choose not to follow that though.

The USA also has plenty of gun production capacity. Unless you really believe 25% of Americans own 20 guns each, there is a lot of winking and nudging that guns are going south for drugs coming north.

> Unless you really believe 25% of Americans own 20 guns each

On average, that's entirely believable.

I think the vast majority of those people own 4-10 guns, but there are enough people who own hundreds of guns to make the mean a lot higher. In fact this is a classic example of a situation where mean can be significantly higher than median.

Re: Women are nearly half of new gun buyers, study finds

#820

Post by inter_netuser » Fri, Sep 17, 2021, 3:39 AM UTC

mettamage wrote: post #300

sofixa wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But the U.S. murder rate is not all that remarkable, really The US is at 4.96/100,000 for 2012. For reference, Angola is better at 4.85. Bulgaria and Romania, the poorest countries in the EU, are at 1.3. France is at 1.2. If by not remarkable you mean 3 as bad as other developed countries, sure. The numbers are only for intentional homicide, not even counting accidents and suicides which are also made worse by the…

> 4.96/100,000 for 2012 So... 5 * 20 years = 100 So living in the US for 20 year means that the people murdered by guns are very roughly estimated at 1 person per 1000. That's about as twice as high of a chance as dying from the flu [1]. [1] https://www.statista.com/statistics/1127799/influenza-us-mor...

Which means guns are 500% safer than COVID-19?