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A generation of American men give up on college

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Re: A generation of American men give up on college

#811

Post by happythen »

zepto wrote: post #803
happythen wrote: post #799

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Jesus, zepto: A) Thanks for such a detailed response B) Screw you for such a detailed response, my thumbs gonna hurt I write on my phone while watching travel videos on youtube and drinking, quoting is a pain, you deserve a better conversation, but I'll do my best,(thats a lie). Sarcasm is great, its meant to get people riled up, you should try it, makes these comments more entertaining while also exaggerating anothe…

> Sarcasm is great, its meant to get people riled up, you should try it, makes these comments more entertaining while also exaggerating another's end goal to show where those ideals lead. You aren’t exaggerating another’s “end”. You don’t actually know what that is. You are simply being dishonest in your representation. > At this point you aren't stating much, just trying interview me or something, so I'll assume all…

worse educational experience? thats dramatic as hell. You are just mad that can't steal support reserved for other folks.

You keep throwing around priveledge and advantage but I don't think you get it. Do women make less money than men, underrepresented in industries, way higher percentage of being victims of domestic abuse and sexual assault? But your argument, is always "some men", but we are talking about "in general". Huge difference between situational advantage and systematic disadvantage.

Calling me reprehensible, and you are all high and mighty about how mean sarcasm is hahaha. This whole thread, is you getting all bent out of shape because you think the white man isn't getting enough, just leave it at that. I hope one day you see how ridiculous that is.

Re: A generation of American men give up on college

#812

Post by happythen »

zepto wrote: post #807
happythen wrote: post #801

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you think a college would have an "advantage" for someone black that would not be available to someone white? Is it possible, hear me out, that maybe white people are still at a massive advantage getting to college and that colleges are trying to equalize the playing field?

> Yea black people always getting that advantage, you should let more people know. I was simply responding to your sarcastic denial that black people have an advantage in college admissions. Your sarcasm made you appear intellectually dishonest. Now at least we know you are not denying that preferential admissions take place.

"intellectually dishonest" as opposed to physically dishonest or...?

Preferential admissions, sure. And that's not new, admissions take a lot of things into account besides race, like religion, family members who were alumni, hell you can even just pay to get in. You think maybe white men get more preferential treatment in life though? "BUt THaTs NOt WhAT We ArE TALkiNg AbOuT". Huge difference between situational advantage and systematic disadvantage.

Re: A generation of American men give up on college

#813

Post by edmundsauto »

tchaffee wrote: post #775
edmundsauto wrote: post #768

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Usually only at a very superficial level. Enough to comply with the law Any objective evidence to support this? My experience has been the opposite - people care deeply about being objective, in order to make better hiring decisions.

Here is a meta-analysis of "every available field experiment of hiring discrimination against African Americans or Latinos". Just a simple name change on a resume can result in discrimination. Lots of it. "On average, white applicants receive 36% more callbacks than equally qualified African Americans (95% confidence interval of 25–47% more), based on random-effects meta-analysis of data since 1989, representing a su…

The study suggests there is discrimination, it does not speak to anyone's intent. You are doing a lot of psychological projection on a large, diverse group of people whom you have never met nor spoken to about what they care about.

You are judging intention based on results. Those are not the same thing.

Re: A generation of American men give up on college

#814

Post by tchaffee »

edmundsauto wrote: post #813
tchaffee wrote: post #775

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here is a meta-analysis of "every available field experiment of hiring discrimination against African Americans or Latinos". Just a simple name change on a resume can result in discrimination. Lots of it. "On average, white applicants receive 36% more callbacks than equally qualified African Americans (95% confidence interval of 25–47% more), based on random-effects meta-analysis of data since 1989, representing a su…

The study suggests there is discrimination, it does not speak to anyone's intent. You are doing a lot of psychological projection on a large, diverse group of people whom you have never met nor spoken to about what they care about. You are judging intention based on results. Those are not the same thing.

If you are discriminating that early in the process and with such high numbers, and with no improvement, you can't be said to care deeply. That's called lip service.

You said that they care deeply. You are doing a lot of psychological projection on a large group of diverse people. I proved the results are concerning. Prove they simultaneously care but have somehow managed to make no improvements in decades in the results. Lacking proof on your side, we'll have to judge based on results.

Re: A generation of American men give up on college

#815

Post by joenot443 »

happythen wrote: post #811
zepto wrote: post #803

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Sarcasm is great, its meant to get people riled up, you should try it, makes these comments more entertaining while also exaggerating another's end goal to show where those ideals lead. You aren’t exaggerating another’s “end”. You don’t actually know what that is. You are simply being dishonest in your representation. > At this point you aren't stating much, just trying interview me or something, so I'll assume all…

worse educational experience? thats dramatic as hell. You are just mad that can't steal support reserved for other folks. You keep throwing around priveledge and advantage but I don't think you get it. Do women make less money than men, underrepresented in industries, way higher percentage of being victims of domestic abuse and sexual assault? But your argument, is always "some men", but we are talking about "in gene…

Please make this your last comment thread on HN, this was painful to read. This type of discourse does much better on twitter or reddit, feel free to keep it there.

Re: A generation of American men give up on college

#816

Post by LionBlack8 »

The hard part about college admissions is the fact that most young people don’t know what they want to do until after high school cause they are still exploring their options. Even more, for people who are passionate about lots of different things, it can feel very tough to opt for a single path and stick to it so that you become “awesome” at it.

Re: A generation of American men give up on college

#817

Post by LionBlack8 »

The hard part about college admissions is the fact that most young people don’t know what they want to do until after high school cause they are still exploring their options. Many studernts have to use https://writinguniverse.com/free-essay-examples/world/ . Even more, for people who are passionate about lots of different things, it can feel very tough to opt for a single path and stick to it so that you become “awesome” at it..

Re: A generation of American men give up on college

#818

Post by bernulli »

thatfrenchguy wrote: post #808
bernulli wrote: post #717

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's the longest text you've ever written that you can judge 'it's not that hard' to write a 500p standard textbook? As a corollary, only very few professors actually have their own textbook and thus don't make any money whatsoever from choosing a specific textbook. Finally, why would you deny someone money for work they did, typically in their spare time? Who else do you think should give away their work for free?…

In France, literally everyone uses « the teacher’s pdf/printout », so I’m sure American teachers can be good for it too.

Unfortunately, the incentives are quite different. In France and Germany, once you get a university research position or CNRS appointment, or in Germany a permanent professorship, you can essentially do what you want within the 36hrs/wk, and writing a nice little handout is what professors often like to do.

In the US, new faculty are judged by their research output and grant input and are still under the threat of losing their job if they don't make tenure after a few years. There is zero incentive to write a book on top of the 80hrs/wk that are put into the job already.

Also, in Germany, a university will absolutely buy textbooks in bulk for students to use, but that's a philosophical decision of how you want to run a society: if it's upheld as important that everyone can get (essentially) free access to top education, that's what you get. If education is treated like a business, you get something else.

Re: A generation of American men give up on college

#819

Post by bernulli »

disgruntledphd2 wrote: post #791
bernulli wrote: post #719

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm still missing the part where I get rich! Please tell me! Truth be told, in my field the intro level textbooks are essentially indistinguishable, down to graphics and specific examples, and every publisher has one. Even if I got free samples for all of them (I don't), there is zero difference for the student. You look at the classics, maybe check out a new book, but in the end pick the one you're already familiar…

It does depend on the field, in mine (psychology) the textbooks can be very, very different due to the size and bifurcation of the field. But yeah, you won't get rich, but you will get a full bookshelf, so you'll be rich in knowledge ;)

Haha, I wish! Most of the books for the intro classes I teach are essentially redundant. It's a lucky occasion when you teach something where you learn something completely new that you find interesting, and these classes are typically small, so there's even less incentive for a publisher.

Re: A generation of American men give up on college

#820

Post by btreecat »

chakkepolja wrote: post #745
btreecat wrote: post #634

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is that a biological imperative and not just another form of social conditioning?

Men are the competitive gender. In past, only 40% of men survived to reproduce whereas 80% of women did. Not in absolute terms, but imagine if more competitive men survive with higher probability in each generation, there's a good chance males will be more competitive and females will be more cooperative in next generations. Now this theory is fringe. But not as nonsense as "Both genders are same, everything is socia…

So given that gender specifically is a social concept, there is historical but not necessarily biological causation at play.
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