Fewer young men are in the labor force, more are living at home • Hacker News Board

Re: Fewer young men are in the labor force, more are living at home

#811

Post by withinboredom » Sat, Jun 12, 2021, 6:46 AM UTC

manigandham wrote: post #628

spideymans wrote: post #506

Earlier quoted context omitted.

More succinctly, why work when we have nothing to work for? Anecdotally, I just graduated from university and am gainfully employed. I'm really happy to be employed, yet I quickly realized that I have no idea what I want to do with all this money. I'm never going to be able to buy a house. I'm not particularly enthusiastic about having kids, and don't think I can afford children in the first place. I have no major li…

You can retire before 40 but cant afford a house? That doesn't add up. Also do you realize that billions of people on this planet have a far worse life than you? You have the luxury of having problems like these. However purpose and meaning don't just appear out of nowhere, you have to actively go find them.

Heh, I have enough income to retire in my 30s, but not enough to buy a house in the neighborhood I rent in where home prices have gone up 500% in the last 10 years.

Re: Fewer young men are in the labor force, more are living at home

#812

Post by lordnacho » Sat, Jun 12, 2021, 6:49 AM UTC

paulpauper wrote: post #382

I don't think it's a tragedy. The overly dramatic media and pundits get this all wrong in labeling it such. Young people are simply responding to incentives to live at home longer. Living expenses keep going up relative to inflation and wages, such as home prices, rent, insurance, etc. Living at home is a good way save money, even for the employed. Family formation is expensive and fraught with risks such as divorce…

I think the tragedy is that they would, deep in their hearts, rather not be playing games all day, ie they themselves would like to do something different but they can't find the bridge between what the world offers them and what they can offer the world.

If playing games all day was really their desire then yeah I'd agree with you.

Re: Fewer young men are in the labor force, more are living at home

#813

Post by withinboredom » Sat, Jun 12, 2021, 6:53 AM UTC

ArkanExplorer wrote: post #435

toomuchtodo wrote: post #403

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But who raises the next generation under that scenario? Immigrants, of course, but what does that say about what American society has become? https://www.brookings.edu/blog/up-front/2021/05/24/will-birt... (Will births in the US rebound? Probably not.) People respond to incentives. Living and having children in the US is expensive, so the results are what you’d expect. Maybe we don’t need replacement rate, except f…

Historically, only a % of the population ever reproduced. About the same as do today. The difference is that the couples that do have children, have much fewer children. 2, instead of 4. We need to look at the costs faced by couples with a lot of children. For example, you can accommodate 2 children in a standard 3 bedroom house, but 4 or 5 children are going to need a much larger and more expensive dwelling. Same th…

When we lived in the US, we only had a single child and said No More. That single child nearly bankrupted us in medical bills. You’d have to be irrational to have a child in the US, be very rich, very poor, or have great health insurance.

Since moving to the EU, when we explain to people how much our child costs, their jaw drops. If the US wants more children, they really need to solve the medical costs problem.

Re: Fewer young men are in the labor force, more are living at home

#814

Post by ccity88 » Sat, Jun 12, 2021, 6:56 AM UTC

Reading a lot of comments on this thread, I see many that are oblivious and out of touch at best, and disingenuous at worst. I'm 22 and I've been living with my parents my entire life; I have an Ok salary living in London, the reason I haven't taken the next step of moving out is because financially it doesn't make sense. I could get a place tomorrow and have that independence, but I won't be saving anything, and I'll never be able to a mortgage, I'll be renting for the rest of my life. I'm going to have to live with other people anyway (house/flat mates), so why not stay with family instead? I save on rent, its a good deal? Many of my friends and cohorts are in a similar position, in a large major city like London living with parents until 24-25 is completely the norm.

Our generation has it the worst. Entry level jobs are harder to get, entry level pay is peanuts compared to living costs, accommodation costs are through the roof, and for many of us the dream of owning a home is just that, a dream. So colour me less than surprised to see young men living at home when an entire generation has been disenfranchised by a society that doesn't give a rats ass about young people.

Re: Fewer young men are in the labor force, more are living at home

#815

Post by antiterra » Sat, Jun 12, 2021, 7:00 AM UTC

flippinburgers wrote: post #511

Men are not doing as well as women in school. If you look in the wrong places on the internet, media, or daily life, all you see is negativity towards masculinity. In addition, there doesn't appear to be any broad social system that is geared towards supporting men. The fact that men don't tend to be a socially adept doesn't help. This all feels like the perfect storm and there are plenty of people who act like "men…

Masculinity can create its own suffering. Men and boys have been brutally mocked for showing emotion or wearing pink. Men have an insecurity about buying products or services that are too femininely branded, so an asthetic procedure is called a detail or an oil change or some garbage. My dad would only give me manly hugs with a forceful pat because kissing your son goodnight on the head just isn’t right. I’ve found forum threads where men agonize about wearing a women’s sized version of their favorite running shoe, and even the ones willing to do so may only do it if the colorway exactly matches the men’s version.

I know women who have little choice but to say they have a boyfriend when they want to turn someone down at a bar, because saying ‘sorry no thanks’ gets them insulted, harassed, covered in beer or assaulted. Women that turn a guy down on a dating app will be called names and told they were actually unattractive the whole time.

Yes, women are not immune to being violent, petty, deceitful and cruel, but men are terrifying on an entirely different level. If you consider yourself a nice guy, you might be somewhat oblivious to how pervasive it is.

Re: Fewer young men are in the labor force, more are living at home

#816

Post by grammarnazzzi » Sat, Jun 12, 2021, 7:08 AM UTC

wwweston wrote: post #769

grammarnazzzi wrote: post #624

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Women did not create the society that is hurting men emotionally and economically The extreme elements of 3rd wave feminism has influcenced society in ways that unfairly and negatively impact boys. Specifically the concept of "toxic masculinity". Toxic people are toxic. Toxic behaviors are toxic. Toxic people should be shamed and toxic behaviors should be discouraged. Boys should not be shamed for being masculine,…

> Toxic people are toxic. Yes, and generally when the term "toxic people" is used, few assume that the speaker is saying that "people are toxic" and "people should be shamed for being people." And yet... you've done pretty much that with the term "toxic masculinity." It's almost as if someone has persuaded you that adjectives are actually appositives. The phrase "toxic masculinity" no more implies that masculinity it…

The difference is that "toxic food" directly implies food that is poisonous.

"Toxic masulinity" has no obvious or direct meaning. It's a made up term. It's marketing. It itself conveys no useful meaning other than to associate masculitity with toxicicity.

To tie such a negative term to any other social/gender group would be called out as the biggotry it is.

Re: Fewer young men are in the labor force, more are living at home

#817

Post by CapricornNoble » Sat, Jun 12, 2021, 7:09 AM UTC

wouldChuckIt wrote: post #601

stemlord wrote: post #558

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>A person who does nothing with their life when they could be doing something is really a narcissist. I spent a mere year after college living with my parents, a very long and sad year, wondering if this was going to be the rest of my life. My next real job came somewhat out of sheer luck and I'm thankful for it because I could totally see myself having given up, still back there to this day, still having no idea how…

Made a throwaway for obvious reasons. I'm in the middle of that year right now. I was doing well - transferred from community college to a top university studying engineering. Perfect grades, several prestigious summer internships. Then I had a depressive episode. Grades went down the toilet, had to leave school. Spent a year getting my life back together, but the depression never really went away. I went back to sch…

Consider enlisting in the Air Force: lots of opportunities for interesting technical education, well-paid global travel, far less physical risk than the other military branches, just enough discipline and structure to give you some direction.

Re: Fewer young men are in the labor force, more are living at home

#818

Post by withinboredom » Sat, Jun 12, 2021, 7:09 AM UTC

lotsofpulp wrote: post #449

ArkanExplorer wrote: post #435

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Historically, only a % of the population ever reproduced. About the same as do today. The difference is that the couples that do have children, have much fewer children. 2, instead of 4. We need to look at the costs faced by couples with a lot of children. For example, you can accommodate 2 children in a standard 3 bedroom house, but 4 or 5 children are going to need a much larger and more expensive dwelling. Same th…

> We need to look at the costs faced by couples with a lot of children. For example, you can accommodate 2 children in a standard 3 bedroom house, but 4 or 5 children are going to need a much larger and more expensive dwelling. Same thing with cars. Per modern standards. A whole bedroom per child is still today only an amenity that relatively richer people have, especially in desirable areas. I also wonder how many w…

> I also wonder how many women chose to have 4 kids.

I guess it depends how far back you go. Prior to child labor laws, having more children resulted in more family income. They could work on the farm or in factories, etc. In those times, childhood mortality was also high. So you may have had 8 kids but not that many would make it to adulthood.

Re: Fewer young men are in the labor force, more are living at home

#819

Post by watwut » Sat, Jun 12, 2021, 7:28 AM UTC

bigdollopenergy wrote: post #485

majormajor wrote: post #388

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is what you believe men want in a woman, that's being unfulfilled for these men? The common male complaint I see isn't "all these women I date are simply not going to fulfill what I need," it's "no women will date me at all" which points at a breakdown in the process way before the point of "what are these men looking for." Hard to imagine these men even have any idea of what they're actually looking for in a re…

> Given that the vast majority breakups are initiated by women I suspect what the poster meant to write was that most divorces are initiated by women. Which is a different statistic but still somewhat relevant. It's actually true, it's around 69% that are initiated by women. Here's the study i quickly found for it which seems credible https://www.asanet.org/press-center/press-releases/women-mor... Interestingly it ex…

Statistically, men do better financially after divorce and women do worst. Men are more lonely, depressive and more unhappy. Women are more happy after divorce. Men find new partner sooner after divorce.

Where men ask for custody, they tend to get it. But they are less likely to ask.

Also, alimony for adult women are more of rare. Where they exist they are time limited and awarded only if she stayed at home for multiple years. As in, in double income situation they wont happen.

Re: Fewer young men are in the labor force, more are living at home

#820

Post by ikt » Sat, Jun 12, 2021, 7:28 AM UTC

TchoBeer wrote: post #707

rewgs wrote: post #543

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you say that you're never going to be able to buy a house, but maybe will end up retiring before you're 40? Sounds like, in lieu of anything else, you should try and buy a rental property or two. Start slow, eventually FIRE, that whole thing. That said, yeah, the same sentence could then be applied but with time: "why retire when I have nothing to do with my time?" I'm 30 and still don't have a great answer fo…

I had a long conversation with my brother, who never wanted to retire ever, and his reason was basically "what would I even do with all the time I have". My inability to answer that haunts me every day. I still don't know.

Travel? Hobbies?