Poor in Tech • Hacker News Board

Re: Poor in Tech

#811

Post by kyawzazaw » Mon, May 24, 2021, 7:00 PM UTC

dan-robertson wrote: post #805

GuB-42 wrote: post #681

I started to sympathize and even being admirative at times, then it got darker. One word: theft. Taking advantage of free snacks, fine, it is what they are for. Taking stuff back home is borderline but ok. Not handing back the $350 headphones because no one is looking, definitely not ok. The way she described the situation as "everyone is rich so no need to lock thing up and check everything" instead of "people trust…

> theft Seems to go both ways. Another paragraph described being the lowest paid worker. It seems that they asked her what sort of comp she was expecting, she produced a shockingly low number, and they just accepted the number and moved on. I think that’s basically unethical on the employer’s part. They should have basically ignored what she’d said and offered something they thought was reasonable (obviously that sti…

> They should have basically ignored what she’d said and offered something they thought was reasonable

That just doesn't happen most of the time. Happens even with SWE who don't negotiate well.

Re: Poor in Tech

#812

Post by kyawzazaw » Mon, May 24, 2021, 7:01 PM UTC

colinmhayes wrote: post #318

Cthulhu_ wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sure it's a much better experience if you fly first class.

The part that's the worst isn't being on the plane. It's going to and being at the airport. First class doesn't fix the god awful experience that is flying.

If you are in first class, I assure you that's going to and being at the airport will be much relaxing.

Re: Poor in Tech

#813

Post by rkk3 » Mon, May 24, 2021, 7:57 PM UTC

bumby wrote: post #752

gonehome wrote: post #728

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s kind of case-in-point - it’s high status in low class circles.

Is this confusing wealth and class? Your statement, worded differently, seems to read "it's high class in low class circles". Are you implying class is only appropriately defined only by those in high-class? I guess I was looking at it as social prestige regardless of who in the social strata assigns it. In other words, if enough 'low-class' people think you're high-class, you're by definition high-class.

Class is defined by the members of each group. Non-members are by definition mostly ignorant of the groups' culture that they are not a part of. So they can recognize people are different from them, but not which group they belong to.

"low-class" people would not determine who is "high-class" any more than the "high-class" people determine who is "low-class".

Re: Poor in Tech

#814

Post by notriddle » Tue, May 25, 2021, 1:26 AM UTC

cloverich wrote: post #535

throwaway0a5e wrote: post #297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This doesn't surprise me one bit. Tech is just another white collar country club. The rules are just slightly different than the bankers country club and the surgeons country club and the lawyer's country club. If you're not one of the people who typically joins that kind of club you can hack it but you won't feel like you belong or you might but it will take you many years.

One counter point, which is the defining feature of tech imho, is you don't need to be born into it. Its difficult to become a doctor without prepping years or more ahead of even applying. You can break into tech at basically any point in your life, it just takes time (as you said) and effort. And of course, interest will make it more enjoyable / tolerable. Its not a perfectly egalitarian club, but it is certainly _m…

Tech might be like that.

The SV startup bubble is not.

Re: Poor in Tech

#815

Post by literallycancer » Tue, May 25, 2021, 1:22 PM UTC

bumby wrote: post #536

watwut wrote: post #313

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In some ways it's a laundry list of ways rich people in the Bay Area act like wankers, which is interesting, but also quite irritatingly stereotypical. I dont think this is true about article at all. Quite a few points are not complains about other peoples behavior nor do they contain anything bad. I do indoor climbing, it does cost money, we talked about climbing in the work a lot. I would really have to work hard…

> I dont think this is true about article at all. Quite a few points are not complains about other peoples behavior nor do they contain anything bad. I do indoor climbing, it does cost money, we talked about climbing in the work a lot. I would really have to work hard to perceive myself being criticizes by that point. I did not read the article as commenting about what is "bad" about the tech industry but rather abou…

Climbing is something that basically anyone can do, it improves your fitness and reduces the load on the healthcare system. Super yachts are something that almost no one can have, probably causes some pollution and otherwise doesn't really do anything useful? How can you compare the two?

The author looks like she has to pass through doors sideways, so I can see how she might feel alienated by an activity that requires one to pull their own weight. I am quite sure that making people that are unhealthy by choice feel alienated is a good thing, all in all.

Re: Poor in Tech

#816

Post by cryptica » Thu, May 27, 2021, 9:57 AM UTC

BluePen8 wrote: post #784

cryptica wrote: post #497

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> Your pay is forever tied to what you used to make. It's not just a psychological "avoid the subject" kind of trick. They literally refuse to give you raises no matter what. In my last job, I was likely the top developer in the company (the company had hundreds of millions of $ of runway just sitting there) and I was putting constant pressure on my boss for a raise and promotion for years (they even admitted that I…

Based on what I've heard and my own experience, raises are a pittance anyways. You have to change jobs. My manager did the opposite, praised me for being the top dev, gave me a 7% raise, said that's the max they could give anyone, asked me not to tell the others. The problem with being "the top dev" is there's no one to learn from, so I started looking for other opportunities anyways. Never mentioned my old salary, a…

I worked for at least 15 companies (of all different kinds) over 15 years and the last time I worked with a developer who was smarter than me was 5 years ago. I've been working nights and weekends on open source projects too so I think I must be near the top in terms of skills... But somehow that doesn't translate to even moderate financial success. I find myself more alone and less appreciated than ever in spite of the fact that I've never been more performant, sharper and more knowledgeable.

I can deliver extremely high quality projects (in very complex areas) at an unparalleled speed and can turn a team of junior developers into 10x developers but nobody cares and many less experienced developers disagree with my approach in spite of the fact that I keep proving them wrong over and over.

To give an idea; I've build a blockchain ecosystem in 1 year for $0 (only paid in the new crypto before it had value)... My closest competitor has been working torwards the same thing for 5 years and it cost them at least $20 million.

Re: Poor in Tech

#817

Post by webmaven » Tue, Jun 01, 2021, 3:15 AM UTC

Grustaf wrote: post #735

webmaven wrote: post #714

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> She is a writer and not a software engineer. Comparing her salary to software engineer interns therefore isn't fair. I'm going to call BS on that. Written communication is a high-leverage activity that if you are going to the trouble of having a dedicated position for it, paying that person well is a pretty good idea. Perhaps not as well as an engineering role of similar seniority, but about as well as a design or…

The question is not if writing is important. It's very easy to argue that a nurse is more important than any engineer, but they are never paid as well, people have more or less accepted that.

I'm not arguing for the importance of writing except in the sense that similar arguments used to be made for the importance of design.

If you actually have a dedicated writer on staff (as opposed to outsourcing it to a marketing agency), paying them less than an intern is as mind-bogglingly stupid as paying a full time designer less than an intern.

BTW, nurses may get paid less than engineers, but they don't get paid less than medical residents, which is a more appropriate parallel to an engineering intern.