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WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using app

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Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using app

#811

Post by smueller1234 »

rusk wrote: post #583
submeta wrote: post #467

I am in the EU, and this is what I have been presented with: „ By tapping Agree, you accept the new terms, which take effect on February 8, 2021. After this date, you’ll need to accept the new terms to continue using WhatsApp. You can also visit the Help Center if you would prefer to delete your account and would like more information. To learn more about how WhatsApp processes your data, read our updated privacy pol…

As I understand it even with click thru agreement like this it is still illegal in the EU. Could be an interesting case on the way... I believe that WhatsApp only real option in this case is to stop serving the EU, which I feel as an EU residents could only be a good thing!

Probably relevant: if I go to the terms/privacy policy via settings, I am greeted by the following preamble.

"If you don't live in the European Region, WhatsApp LLC provides WhatsApp to you under this Terms of Service and Privacy Policy."

Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using app

#812

Post by comeonseriously »

kar1181 wrote: post #677

It's harder for US folks to understand just how much of a monopoly WhatsApp has in Europe and the UK. Pretty much all of our school and local community communication happens via WhatsApp. I'd change to Signal or Telegram in a heartbeat, but the inertia is so great it's not possible. It pains me to say, but we're getting to the point where companies like Twitter, Facebook and Google need to be treated like utilities o…

Assign everyone an IP V6, there's plenty. Then treat that as our internet phone number. Define a chat protocol that contains the very basics and everyone has to support that. Want to send a chat, you have their IP V6. Exchange using QR code. No server necessary for the basics. If a text fails sending device can keep trying or just give up.

This takes chat away from any single service.

Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using app

#813

Post by baliex »

kar1181 wrote: post #677

It's harder for US folks to understand just how much of a monopoly WhatsApp has in Europe and the UK. Pretty much all of our school and local community communication happens via WhatsApp. I'd change to Signal or Telegram in a heartbeat, but the inertia is so great it's not possible. It pains me to say, but we're getting to the point where companies like Twitter, Facebook and Google need to be treated like utilities o…

"Be the change you want to see in the world" -- I'm gonna have a go at switching as many people away as possible; friends, family, co-workers. It's all about critical mass so every step in that direction is a step toward your school and local community communications being on some alternative platform instead.

Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using app

#814

Post by mslack616 »

kar1181 wrote: post #677

It's harder for US folks to understand just how much of a monopoly WhatsApp has in Europe and the UK. Pretty much all of our school and local community communication happens via WhatsApp. I'd change to Signal or Telegram in a heartbeat, but the inertia is so great it's not possible. It pains me to say, but we're getting to the point where companies like Twitter, Facebook and Google need to be treated like utilities o…

Not only Europe and UK, LATAM is also pretty much governed by WA. I remember one time I had a visit of some folks from Canada, they were very surprised that we used it as our main chat/communication app. When I asked why, they said "we don't hear from it (referring to WA) that much, we all just use iMessage" I guess in their context/community most people own iPhones.

Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using app

#815

Post by the_french »

comeonseriously wrote: post #812
kar1181 wrote: post #677

It's harder for US folks to understand just how much of a monopoly WhatsApp has in Europe and the UK. Pretty much all of our school and local community communication happens via WhatsApp. I'd change to Signal or Telegram in a heartbeat, but the inertia is so great it's not possible. It pains me to say, but we're getting to the point where companies like Twitter, Facebook and Google need to be treated like utilities o…

Assign everyone an IP V6, there's plenty. Then treat that as our internet phone number. Define a chat protocol that contains the very basics and everyone has to support that. Want to send a chat, you have their IP V6. Exchange using QR code. No server necessary for the basics. If a text fails sending device can keep trying or just give up. This takes chat away from any single service.

This approach ignores all the aspects that made whatsapp / chat services popular in the first place. A short list:

  - Contact Discovery
  - Group chats
  - History / Log
  - Shared message order
  - Communication beyond text (emojis / reactions / inline images) 
  - Ability to receive messages while offline 
  - No need for technical skills
These aren't trivial features, they are prerequisites for any replacement, decentralized or otherwise. Just because we as developers like / tolerate things like IRC doesn't mean the rest of the world will accept it.

Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using app

#816

Post by herbst »

dtech wrote: post #805
herbst wrote: post #713

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am in europe, switzerland and plenty of friends in austria. Yes many of my social circle have whatsapp but none is using it exclusively as it was some years ago. People have the choice and use it. Not sure what is holding other circles back? I havent had whatsapp in 4+ years and only rarely have to fall back to SMS

What is the alternative are your social circles using? SMS is the only alternative with a wide install base and the experience is inferior to WA,Telegram etc.

Telegram, Signal, Discord, some via Email depends on the people. Everyone has a second or third messaging app

Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using app

#817

Post by nindalf »

edeion wrote: post #742
tdubhro1 wrote: post #692

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm also in the UK and I deleted WhatsApp 2 years ago when it became clear that Facebook intended to move in the direction of fuller integration (I deleted my Facebook account after 1 month of usage 10 years ago). However, I had to reinstall WhatsApp because all of my kid's sports activities and school updates are organised through WhatsApp groups and it is impossible to participate without WhatsApp. Much as I believ…

My experience is similar. I want to add that when I left WhatsApp (~2y ago) I deleted my account. WhatsApp kept accepting messages on my behalf. People didn't know I wasn't getting their messages. I'm surprised I don't see this mentioned to the point I wonder if I did something wrong at the time. In the end, I reopened a WhatsApp account recently because everyone is using WhatsApp in France and I couldn't stand break…

> People didn't know I wasn't getting their messages.

They saw 2 ticks, meaning delivered to your device? Or did they see one tick, meaning only delivered to the server?

If it's the latter, that's a reasonable choice for the server to make. The server has acknowledged receipt of the message, and failed to send it to your device.

If you wanted WhatsApp to advertise to your contacts that your account was inactive, you could have maybe sent them a message yourself?

Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using app

#818

Post by herbst »

Tepix wrote: post #738
herbst wrote: post #713

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am in europe, switzerland and plenty of friends in austria. Yes many of my social circle have whatsapp but none is using it exclusively as it was some years ago. People have the choice and use it. Not sure what is holding other circles back? I havent had whatsapp in 4+ years and only rarely have to fall back to SMS

Do you have kids? What do they use?

I dont. Guess they would communicate by dancing on tiktok judging from my knowlege about teens these days :)

Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using app

#819

Post by sebow »

kar1181 wrote: post #677

It's harder for US folks to understand just how much of a monopoly WhatsApp has in Europe and the UK. Pretty much all of our school and local community communication happens via WhatsApp. I'd change to Signal or Telegram in a heartbeat, but the inertia is so great it's not possible. It pains me to say, but we're getting to the point where companies like Twitter, Facebook and Google need to be treated like utilities o…

Be the change you want to see. I mean sure it requires to be a little charismatic and usually to be an inspirational figure, but i quit facebook & messenger in 2015 and since then a lot of my friends(whom i never talked on the matter) made the switch. Simple explanations like: "it's made to be a drug" and some of the negatives (like privacy here) switch more people than you think.

And i totally disagree on making these corporations utilities: you're just giving them access to more possible critical infrastructure they can datamine, which is what it's being done on billions of people through these 'apps'.

Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using app

#820

Post by xuki »

nindalf wrote: post #817
edeion wrote: post #742

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My experience is similar. I want to add that when I left WhatsApp (~2y ago) I deleted my account. WhatsApp kept accepting messages on my behalf. People didn't know I wasn't getting their messages. I'm surprised I don't see this mentioned to the point I wonder if I did something wrong at the time. In the end, I reopened a WhatsApp account recently because everyone is using WhatsApp in France and I couldn't stand break…

> People didn't know I wasn't getting their messages. They saw 2 ticks, meaning delivered to your device? Or did they see one tick, meaning only delivered to the server? If it's the latter, that's a reasonable choice for the server to make. The server has acknowledged receipt of the message, and failed to send it to your device. If you wanted WhatsApp to advertise to your contacts that your account was inactive, you…

> The server has acknowledged receipt of the message, and failed to send it to your device.

Doing this without explicitly telling the other party is a dark pattern.

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