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George Floyd Protest – police brutality videos on Twitter

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Re: George Floyd Protest – police brutality videos on Twitter

#811

Post by no-s »

koheripbal wrote: post #434
kthejoker2 wrote: post #412

If there ever was a case of "don't comment unless you've RTFA" this it: people extrapolating their viewpoint on a list of 700 things from watching 1, 2, 3 ... At a minimum, watch 100 videos. I did last night, only took about an hour, it's easy to find some to nitpick, some which are ambiguous ... and plenty that are totally horrifying. If you can watch 100 videos in a row from Greg Doucette's list and say, "the milit…

I pseudo-randomly sampled 30 videos... Almost all of them had outright wrong, or heavily misleading titles and/or descriptions with contradictory claims in the comments - and almost none of them provided context to the police actions. This list is really more about stoking emotions than providing evidence of anything. I mean look at this one... https://twitter.com/jayjanner/status/1267111893753307137 A large volume o…

>>pseudo-randomly sampled 30 videos...

same here. I saw a couple out of 20 that looked like gratuitous police brutality. many were labeled as such and didn't seem likely. The deluge of irrelevant examples and confusing commentary confuses the point.

Re: George Floyd Protest – police brutality videos on Twitter

#812

Post by wyclif »

tikiman163 wrote: post #745
rzwitserloot wrote: post #685

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good question. But note that the status quo answer has been proven to be woefully suitable. Fining the homeless seems silly, and unlikely to serve as either a deterrent or as workable compensation for society at large. Throwing them in a jail is even worse; it is unlikely to deter (part of the problem is that there are mental issues at work which are likely going to make _any_ deterrence ineffective, you need complet…

In the case of homelessness there have been pilot programs that actually show the cost of just giving chronicly homeless people permanent housing and psychological counseling to be dramatically less expensive to society than our current solutions. By providing housing in these cases we reduce the prison population, which is much less expensive than counseling and a small living space. Counseling and access to prevent…

It often goes unremarked in the current discourse about police brutality, but the USA passes an abundance of unnecessary laws. And when you pass a law you are backing it up with the threat of force, which can result in death.

As Americans, perhaps we should be calling for:

1/ Limits on the power of police to protect bad officers and change prosecutorial discretion.

2/ Limits on the number of interactions between the police and citizenry, which means passing fewer laws.

Look at what led to Eric Garner's death. A politician put a tax of $5.85 on a pack of cigarettes, driving smokes underground. When the police enforce this overcrimininalization, it exposes poor people to unnecessary interactions with cops and potentially violent confrontations.

Re: George Floyd Protest – police brutality videos on Twitter

#813

Post by WesternStar »

whydoyoucare wrote: post #807
WesternStar wrote: post #643

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No because the goal is to have public safety organizations that don't have any of the personnel, historical lineage or goals of the police. By poor analogy, the goal isn't to clone facebook its to make a twitter,Instagram,telegram,etc. Different orgs with different goals with different people ultimately focused on public safety.

So the new org should have all new personnel, new goals that do not overlap with those of the police ("serve and protect", from what I understand), yet focused on public safety. I am now genuinely curious to know how this is to be achieved, and what safeguards/guarantees are to be encoded so the new org does not devolve into the existing police.

So lets take one example lets say you have a late night restaurant devoted to providing drivers who would possibly drive drunk a place to sober up and people who are homeless a hot breakfast. Let's call this place "Waffle House". How exactly would those people become police as currently constituted. How exactly would an organization dedicated to providing satisfying justice without prisons become the police as currently constituted? The police as currently created barely solve crimes(30% clear rates) and don't really appear to be interested in justice. You seem to think its hard to imagine an organization dedicated to public safety that's not like them. They're so bad at it I ask the other question how could an organization dedicated to public safety ever be like the police.

Re: George Floyd Protest – police brutality videos on Twitter

#814

Post by cies »

SkyBelow wrote: post #683
cies wrote: post #644

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To most of these I'd say: make 'm offenses not crimes. As I see it: crimes make it punishable by jail time, offenses not.

But doesn't this then introduce the problems with fines? They can be disproportionate and can also be viewed as a tax. Making them proportionate has other issues, such as effectively making it a non-punishment for some people who can optimize around it (people working under the table) and can easily lead to situations where corporations can structure themselves so they don't have to pay any significant fine with caug…

Fines that are not income/wealth dependent are discriminating against those with less money, whom are overrepresented, and should thus logically be forbidden in a functioning democracy. I guess little proper functioning democracies according to my standards.

Good point.

Re: George Floyd Protest – police brutality videos on Twitter

#815

Post by craftinator »

base698 wrote: post #804
TeaDrunk wrote: post #764

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tasers are nonlethal weapons, and also don't work at that range anyways, or the police would've tased him. Multiple other cops had tasers.

Some questions to be answered in the 1 second he points it at you: + How do you know your partner is behind you? + How do you know he won't take your gun after he uses the taser on you? + How do you know it was a taser? + Are you confident enough in those answers to miss your daughter's next birthday?

Have you seen the video? The cop drops his own taser and draws his firearm as the victim runs away. Why would he do that? Because he knows his taser is out of range, won't reach the victim.

So he knows his taser has the stopping power of a nerf gun at that point. The corollary is that he knows the taser in the hands of the victim is also out of range, also has the stopping power of a nerf gun. After this is known, because it is known, he drops his taser and draws his pistol, which does have the range.

Re: George Floyd Protest – police brutality videos on Twitter

#816

Post by cies »

neycoda wrote: post #778
cies wrote: post #506

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe "the right not to be prosecuted for a victimless crime" should be an amendment. Then homelessness/drugs-whatevers/prostitution can no longer have laws against them. "Address the root cause", exactly, and the root cause is the unjust laws. Though cops pretty much never being found guilty for unjust use of violence is a big one too, and I wonder what law changes can solve that issue.

Homelessness/drugs/prostitution has splash and fallout damage to people directly involved and others such as disease-spreading, burgleries, and mental/physical damage. Having laws against them is just one way mitigate or minimize that damage, but of course dealing with the underlying cause should work better, but our country is not sympathetic to that kind of social spending. So we have a continual cycle of crime-pun…

> splash and fallout damage

So what? (Two) adults choose to have some interaction that all parties are happy with? Who are us outsiders to claim that their freedoms should be reduced?

The best reason is "splash and fallout" damage? I dont know if you've seen how weed has been used to put people in cages. People in cages! And you come with "splash and fallout" damage as a justification... You lost me.

Re: George Floyd Protest – police brutality videos on Twitter

#817

Post by craftinator »

base698 wrote: post #760
MrMan wrote: post #752

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Autopsy says shot in the back twice.

He pointed a taser at the police behind him in pursuit. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sbf0x_K9i54

Wow, first time I've seen this video. I don't want that man as a cop in my USA. Absolutely disgusting. This is more aggressive than we treat enemy combatants in Afghanistan. Deadly force as a response to a fleeing individual shooting a non-lethal, short ranged weapon over his shoulder? Disturbing.

Re: George Floyd Protest – police brutality videos on Twitter

#818

Post by cies »

leetcrew wrote: post #589
AlexTWithBeard wrote: post #553

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the right not to be prosecuted for a victimless crime So if I'm driving drunk, then I'm not prosecuted until there's a victim? Hm...

I wouldn't necessarily say that DUI is a victimless crime. you might not hurt anyone, but you've exposed everyone on the road to excess risk, which could be argued is a type of harm. I'm not sure jail time is necessary for DUI. having your license suspended is already a severe punishment in places where you really need a vehicle to get around. requiring an interlock whenever the person is allowed to drive again also…

I agree that DUIs and speeding are not victimless and should be punishable, to deter that behavior. It is also well studied to be "risk inducing" and "fixes with fines".

Drugs, prostitution and being homeless (a.k.a. being poor/ in need of support). Should never've been even considered for crimes. Hence I proposed to have those laws made unconstitutional by some amendment.

Re: George Floyd Protest – police brutality videos on Twitter

#819

Post by unethical_ban »

lazyjones wrote: post #805
unethical_ban wrote: post #674

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd place a $1000 bet that you are either a Republican, or you have a close friend or family member in law enforcement. The police are uniquely powerful against normal citizens. Not only are these videos clearly representative of a large number of abuses, but their colleagues rarely try to stop those abuses. Few of them will be held accountable. The police are almost always above the law, if not outright immune. In "…

> I'd place a $1000 bet that you are either a Republican, or you have a close friend or family member in law enforcement. You lost that bet.

Hm. I don't see people defending the State's violent arm beating and oppressing its peaceful citizens unless they have a sympathetic ear to the profession.

Re: George Floyd Protest – police brutality videos on Twitter

#820

Post by cies »

freeflight wrote: post #689
AlexTWithBeard wrote: post #606

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, here we step on a slippery slope of defining a "victimless" crime. Many illegal drugs have a potential of causing harm. Should the harm be purely physical? Homelessness is a public nuisance, which we can choose to ignore, but so is walking naked in a school yard, which will be seen as a much more controversial subject.

> Many illegal drugs have a potential of causing harm. To the user, which is a risk they chose to take. Now you could argue that the illicit trade is causing harm, but that's the direct result of criminalization and not of people choosing to consume substances.

Totally agree. Making victimless behavior to be crimes creates the trade wars. Those laws cause so much harm on society, they are also the reason a significant group is locked up (especially when counting violence resulting from trade as well).
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