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They Used To Last 50 Years

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Re: They Used To Last 50 Years

#811

Post by PeterisP »

CWuestefeld wrote: post #678
2T1Qka0rEiPr wrote: post #520

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whilst this is clearly how no company should aspire to be, it's easy to understand that they want to make a profit, and if you design a "once in a lifetime" product, you'll find yourself out of business within 10 years or so after everyone owns said product. The outcome is planned obsolescence as highlighted in this article. As the article also points out, not only does this damage us economically, it also damages us…

It should be the place of Government to ensure that these externalities are re-addressed (e.g. by taxing companies on every item of theirs which goes into landfill), and for us the citizens to lobby them to do so. That won't eliminate the externality. All appliances will now cost $X more. In the meantime, the government will have collected $X*N more revenue, but it won't have gone toward recycling the decommissioned…

It would make a difference - an appliance that would last 15 years would be $X more expensive, but buying 5 appliances that each last 3 years would cost 5*$X. If $X is meaningfully large, it becomes a strong motivation to prefer things that last longer.

Re: They Used To Last 50 Years

#812

Post by cma »

jamestnz wrote: post #365
Washuu wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Top loaders have no need to lock when they are running for the prevention of putting limbs in them while they are moving. The moment the lid is opened the lid switch is tripped which shuts the washer off. Maybe you are thinking of a locking mechanism to keep someone from drowning in one?

I second this. In NZ most washers are top-loading, and I've never seen one that locks during operation. Instead, if you lift the lid while it is spinning, it engages some kind of emergency-brake and that spinner grinds to a halt in a fraction of a second.

> it engages some kind of emergency-brake and that spinner grinds to a halt in a fraction of a second.

On an HE model if it braked that fast I think the whole washer body would spin around.

Re: They Used To Last 50 Years

#813

Post by chinathrow »

cc439 wrote: post #757
chinathrow wrote: post #669

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For a company, a product that is too reliable is unprofitable in the long term and so they adjust by making sure that the product works beyond the terms of the warranty but not much more. My 2002 Volvo V70, which I bought second hand a couple of years ago, is so reliable that I consider buying a Volvo again.

>(W)hich I bought second hand a couple of years ago Would you consider buying a NEW Volvo? If not, your purchase exerts little to no pressure on the only market which Volvo is concerned with, namely the market for new cars. Yes, a reputation for reliability increases the demand for used Volvos thereby increasing the resale value which positively factors into the decision to purchase a new Volvo. However, the increase…

> Would you consider buying a NEW Volvo?

Yes - sorry I forgot to add that bit :)

Re: They Used To Last 50 Years

#814

Post by caconym_ »

modeopfer wrote: post #553
expnsv_hdphns wrote: post #512

When I went to the first semester of engineering school at the University of Wisconsin - Madison, there was a class called Engineering Professional Development 160: Introduction to Engineering. One of the early class sessions was a lecture from a guy at a power tool company, making some kind of jigsaw or handheld cutting tool. He explicitly told us, paraphrasing, "You don't want to make your product too reliable, bec…

I also studied engineering and I think your professor missed the point. You don't overengineer stuff anymore nowadays, not because you want to scam your consumer out of money (aka planned obsolence) but because the design tools got better and every gram of metal or plastic and every screw and every operation like welding, glueing and so on costs money. Nowadays simulation tools, new manufacturing processes and experi…

If products are failing before their owners were "done" with them, then the analysis you describe is inferior to whatever design techniques preceded it, regardless of how sophisticated it is, because, well, products are failing before their owners are done with them.

You can explain this as "planned obsolescence" or poor engineering (or a poor understanding of the market's needs), but not both, really. I think what you say about consumers often wanting a "disposable" version of a product is true for a lot of products but by no means every product. This is all also tied in with the cycle of trendy new electronic gadgets, which seems to drive consumers' desire to replace perfectly good products they already own.

Re: They Used To Last 50 Years

#815

Post by hx87 »

nimish wrote: post #503
lobster_johnson wrote: post #92

There's a subreddit ( https://www.reddit.com/r/BuyItForLife/ ) trying to track objects that don't suffer from planned obsolescence. Not a lot of appliances there, though. The article seems very US-centric, and doesn't mention European brands such as Miele, Bosch, Siemens and Jura (coffee machines), all of which are wholly owned and produce high-quality stuff.

Bosch and Siemens (and Neff) are owned by BSH, most of the european brands are also parts of conglomerates and have stratified low/medium/high end. Except for Miele, but who wants to spend 1000 quid on a washer?

> but who wants to spend 1000 quid on a washer

If it means less repair bills and downtime and not having to replace for 25+ years, why the hell not?

Re: They Used To Last 50 Years

#816

Post by agumonkey »

mywittyname wrote: post #729
agumonkey wrote: post #435

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cars are still in the old mindset. They're unmodular, un-lego. Kinda like average laptops before 2006 or so. Tons of intricate parts stuck together. Coming from the computer world, especially now that you can plug and swap all kinds of parts, this looks insane. And the carmakers are leveraging this to take a premium on anything if you don't dare to try fixing it yourself.

"Lego" cars used to be really common. Old Hondas were exactly like this, which is why they had such a cult following in the 90s. You could build up a Honda using parts from pretty much any other Honda. This also contributed to their popularity among thieves.

My newbness (or age) is showing. I wish I got to know these. And I believe it might come back since production may distribute closer to people (3D printing for non mechanically challenged parts)

Re: They Used To Last 50 Years

#817

Post by sanderjd »

jaytaylor wrote: post #55

Re: bed mattresses, see http://sleeplikethedead.com By far the most helpful resource out there for learning about available types and characteristics of each so you can make an informed decision. EDIT: Unclear on why this is getting downvoted; explanation would be appreciated. I posted this hoping others might find it useful.

I found it useful! Thanks for posting. Don't worry about downvotes too much - they often normalize after awhile.

Re: They Used To Last 50 Years

#818

Post by snowwrestler »

NDizzle wrote: post #238
snowwrestler wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Front load is better in every other way: easier on your clothes, so they last longer. Uses less water and less soap. Can take bulky fragile items like a down comforter or a tent.

It's not better in every way. Mildew. Having to leave it open so that the seals air out. Gravity - undefeated champion. Replacement parts and repairs. Get ready to open up your wallet. Good luck working on anything yourself.

The secret to maintaining a front load machine is to leave the door open when you're not using it. That's it.

I live in a humid area and my washer is in a basement that occasiaonly floods. No problems with mildew or seal leakage after 7 years.

The only problem I've had was with the water inflow valve. I ordered a new part online and installed it myself.

And this isn't some fancy machine; I bought it a Sears scratch 'n dent showroom.

Re: They Used To Last 50 Years

#819

Post by greglindahl »

steven777400 wrote: post #674
Cthulhu_ wrote: post #639

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is why I'm rather afraid of Tesla and their batteries - you know batteries, whether intentional or not, only last for about 1000 charge cycles, or in the case of Tesla for about 7-10 years, before they have to be replaced - which won't be cheap. This will be an Issue that will be highlighted very soon. We'll see a huge devaluation in secondhand Tesla cars, since replacing the battery will be more expensive than…

I'd like to know more about this too, and how Tesla and other companies plan to address it. I'm particularly concerned about the potential environmental impact of dumping a bunch of batteries into landfills. Is there a battery reburishment/recycling program for these vehicles?

In addition to the other commenters about EV batteries, note that 99% of the 12V starter batteries used in conventional vehicles in the US are recycled.

Re: They Used To Last 50 Years

#820

Post by jansan »

luca_ing wrote: post #580
PeterStuer wrote: post #346

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes Miele, but get as basic model a model as possible as they also have these "1.000 features you will never use but that will break and stop your appliance from working" types. A basic Miele washing machine will caost around $1.000 and weigh around 100kg, so don't put it on a flimsy table, but it should last you well over 10 years.

> and weigh around 100kg Yep. I once carried a Miele washing machine up 3 flights of stairs with a friend. We thought we were about to die. Later I looked up the specs in the manual: its counterweight weighs 120kg :´-( The machine is (I think) around 30 years old, still going strong.

IMHO the most frustrating part about moving is having to carry stuff like dumbbells, counterweights etc, because they have only purpose: Being as heavy as possible.
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