Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

What I Heard from Trump Supporters

blog.samaltman.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

811–820 of 906 posts

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#811

Post by imarg »

quanticle wrote: post #795
Exofunctor wrote: post #587

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having lived for >2 years in 6 different US states (NY, CA, TX, MA, NV, MT) and cities with populations ranging from 2,000 to 20,000,000, I can absolutely guarantee you that rural white areas have the least internalized racism of anywhere in the US. The communities are small enough that racial classification isn't actually a useful heuristic, so people just use social connections and character instead. Second to that…

Having lived for >2 years in 6 different US states (NY, CA, TX, MA, NV, MT) and cities with populations ranging from 2,000 to 20,000,000, I can absolutely guarantee you that rural white areas have the least internalized racism of anywhere in the US. First of all, I will note that none of those places are in the Deep South (e.g. Alabama, Mississippi, Georgia, South Carolina, etc). I would claim that there are strong r…

Honest question: Do you think this wouldn't have happened if you where white?

I believe that when you are referring to rural, conservative areas anyone that is a stranger or strange looking (clothes, hair etc.) would have a similar experience.

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#812

Post by croon »

christophilus wrote: post #340
sxcurry wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except that the contrarian views frequently turn out to be lies, and I can't spend all my time debating lies. Please suggest a contrarian view that's worth discussing.

I know some women who are regularly derided for pointing out that the founder of Planned Parenthood was a eugenicist who wanted to reduce the number of African Americans in the US.

Maybe because it's irrelevant?

Regardless if Michael Jackson was the person characterized by tabloids, let's say he was, does that in any way affect his music?

Regardless of what you think of the Palmer Luckey media debacle, does it have any bearing on the Oculus product(s)?

Judge the man/person by his actions. But products aren't variable by their creator, they're just a product, either good or bad on only it's own merit.

Do you eat Kellogg's products? Do you care what person its founder was?

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#813

Post by jstimpfle »

freehunter wrote: post #778
jstimpfle wrote: post #772

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are confusing morality with "unreflected belief system". Morality is the separation of right and wrong. There are of course different ways to build moral systems, but it's fair to say that pretty much all try to "resolve actual damage", whatever that means. When I say "accepted moral values", I mean just that - the values that we as a society can agree on. Come on, that wasn't so hard.

In the early part of the 20th century, accepted moral values (the values that society could agree on) did not include voting rights for blacks or women. Our society does not always reflect absolute right or wrong. Here is a straw man for you if you need the point made a little stronger and a little more ridiculous: what you're advocating for is that owning human beings, treating blacks as less than human, keeping the…

Yes, this is a complete straw man, as you say. Don't put words in my mouth I never said.

I don't think that's what "moral(ity)" commonly means. "The values that society can agree on" is all we have. The laws are just a codification of that. If they were not (at least in theory) an expression of the values that society agrees on, something would be very wrong. You seem to imply there was a magical way by which we can know right and wrong that was not "moral".

Again, you seem to think of "morality" as something connected with unreflected obedience to a (possibly outdated) belief system, or maybe even a fundamentalistic interpretion thereof. It's not.

You totally miss what I say (and you missed what your parent said, which is why I posted my first comment). I will make crystal clear why I posted that:

> You are confusing what the current law is, with what the law could, or should be, based on accepted moral values.

You claimed that abortion was some black-and-white topic, because there might be some law which draws a clear line at the time of birth. Nobody ever argued against that, but it was not the topic of discourse.

The discourse was not about law, but about how we should deal with abortion. There's a lot uncertainty, and all OP said is that it makes a difference whether abortion is 3 days before conception or 3 days after insemination. THERE IS A GRAY AREA. (Nobody disputed that, if you make a law, you have of course to somehow set a somewhat arbitrary limit by which it is allowed, given certain circumstances, to proceed with abortion).

There need to be (and there are) public debates on what's the right way to deal with abortion, given that there are good and widely accepted reasons both for and against abortion. It's not that simple with abortion - that's all OP said.

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#814

Post by [deleted] »

hkmurakami wrote: post #455
RangerScience wrote: post #365

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm more-or-less on the other side of the fence, complete with getting thrown link after link of... well, not sure I want to call them "facts". I find two tricks to be useful: Avoid statements, ask questions. Asking for summaries is good. Play a little game: How little time can you spend getting the other person to spend the most time on their response? You win if you spend a minute and they spend an hour. Note: Does…

Questions are used when you want to learn about the other person. Statements are used when you want to make a point. Which one a person employes will tell you a lot about their intent.

[deleted]

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#815

Post by SarahJasika »

christophilus wrote: post #531
sseagull wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm pretty liberal and (used to be) a gun owner. I can see supporting those things (I personally would like nationwide reciprocity [0]). It's just very hard for me to understand how this issue (or others like abortion) would be above all others. You are voting for a government with a tremendous amount of power and responsibility (military and defense, infrastructure, running a huge economy, world trade, healthcare, e…

My mom voted for Trump because of the abortion issue. The reason it's above all others in her mind is that she literally views it the way we view the holocaust. (e.g. "Millions of people have died because of pro-choice policies.") So, whether or not you agree with her, you can see that there is some logic to making that issue a high priority if she views it that way. "Hitler's really got a great economic package, has…

Women For Trump- Thumbs Up Tshirt: https://teespring.com/Women-For-Trump-Tshirt Women For Trump Join the crowd! #March4Trump Campaign on March 4th, 2017. and Spread the word! #WomenForTrump, March 4 Trump , Make America Great Again, Make America Safe Again. #MAGA For More Check Our Store : March4Trump Donald Trump presidential campaign, 2016 #MAGA #WomenForTrump #MarchForTrump

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#816

Post by SarahJasika »

christophilus wrote: post #531
sseagull wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm pretty liberal and (used to be) a gun owner. I can see supporting those things (I personally would like nationwide reciprocity [0]). It's just very hard for me to understand how this issue (or others like abortion) would be above all others. You are voting for a government with a tremendous amount of power and responsibility (military and defense, infrastructure, running a huge economy, world trade, healthcare, e…

My mom voted for Trump because of the abortion issue. The reason it's above all others in her mind is that she literally views it the way we view the holocaust. (e.g. "Millions of people have died because of pro-choice policies.") So, whether or not you agree with her, you can see that there is some logic to making that issue a high priority if she views it that way. "Hitler's really got a great economic package, has…

Women For Trump- Thumbs Up Tshirt: https://teespring.com/Women-For-Trump-Tshirt Women For Trump Join the crowd! #March4Trump Campaign on March 4th, 2017. and Spread the word! #WomenForTrump, March 4 Trump , Make America Great Again, Make America Safe Again. #MAGA For More Check Our Store : March4Trump Donald Trump presidential campaign, 2016 #MAGA #WomenForTrump #MarchForTrump

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#817

Post by maxerickson »

camdenlock wrote: post #76

None of this is particularly surprising, but it is sobering to hear it from the horse's mouth. Insane racist sexists didn't win this election for Trump; dogma did. One can no longer openly discuss certain extremely important topics (is there something inherently wrong with Islam as a belief system? Is Black Lives Matter doing good or bad things? Are women really paid less than men for performing the same work?) witho…

If you question the dogma of social justice, you will be lynched on social media

lynched on social media is an unfortunate construction. Excoriated? Mocked? Humiliated? Harassed? All things that can happen on social media.

Anyway, what are the arguments against building a just society? Since you call social justice a dogma, I'd ask you to separate out arguments against the concept of a just society from arguments about whether specific ideas and policies represent progress towards a just society.

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#818

Post by gerbilly »

brockers wrote: post #701
PKop wrote: post #389

As a Trump supporter many of the comments resonated. In regards to upholding and celebrating American culture I always have this thought: Why do silicon valley types promote the concept of a "company culture" and feel it's important enough to base hiring decisions on, while demeaning those that want to uphold and sustain their own country's culture in the same manner? You hear it time and time again when a CEO stress…

Your argument is exceedingly well reasoned. I would love to hear a countervailing opinion to compare it to. Can someone please post a thoughtful reply to PKop main point?

Not a rebuttal, but another perspective.

American culture, viewed from other countries, is an inescapable force diluting local culture and customs.

For example francophones in Quebec make up less than 2% of the north american population. As a French Canadian, I support Quebec's right to pass laws to defend it's culture, before we become completely assimilated, lose our knowledge of our language and culture, and become a vacation destination celebrated for it's french influence.[1]

If we ever, by some crazy twist of destiny become a french MAJORITY, then I would argue that the laws be abolished.

But to equate the situation facing french Canadians with America, the most powerful country on earth, whose culture invades other cultures globally[2] is a false equivalence in my mind.

Maybe we should be asking why real wages haven't increased since 1970, or where all the money has gone[3] how come it's ok for CEO pay to keep increasing, for huge corporations to pay almost no tax, instead of focusing on a Mexican immigrant legal or otherwise, who takes jobs for less than minimum wage that a natural born citizen couldn't live on anyway?

In times of economic prosperity and double digit growth, you don't hear about defending 'culture' as often. I see it as a proxy for economic concerns and a convenient smokescreen that the ultra rich can use to keep us fighting amongst ourselves while we not only ignore the .1% and their increasing share of the wealth, but lionize them for their success.

[1] True fact the english in the province of Ontario once outlawed the teaching of the french language in school. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regulation_17)

[2] And no I don't think it's some evil plan. America happens to be the most powerful culture on earth, so it's culture naturally spreads. It just springs from the imbalance of numbers and of political economic power. People (especially the young) from other countries often want to imitate it.

[3] Why is there a need for austerity?

[4] http://www.epi.org/publication/ceo-pay-continues-to-rise/

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#819

Post by y4mi »

thehardsphere wrote: post #341
the_gastropod wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> One can no longer openly discuss certain extremely important topics (is there something inherently wrong with Islam as a belief system? Is Black Lives Matter doing good or bad things? Are women really paid less than men for performing the same work?) Some very prominent and (mostly) beloved liberals talk about these things _constantly_. Bill Maher, Sam Harris, Maajid Nawaz, and Salman Rushdie for example, are very…

Those people are all famous for saying controversial things. It's part of their brand. They get effectively get passes because: 1. They're famous and very successful 2. They hold enough "appropriate" beliefs that minor deviations are tolerated 3. They’re all used to death threats. Many ordinary people don't enjoy those benefits. Like the teacher who was mentioned earlier who wanted "rule of law" and got fired for "ra…

i'm kinda stumped what exactly you take issue with here... voicing your opinion in a public manner has consequences.

that will hopefully never change, as otherwise the words you're saying become meaningless. don't take a public stance on an issue laden with ideals unless you're fine being attacked by the other side.

on second though: considering trumps habit of simply telling lies on air with absolutely no consequences ... celebrities are kinda immune to this effect.

Re: What I Heard from Trump Supporters

#820

Post by neutralid »

mozumder wrote: post #740

Libertarianism is probably the most accurate description of most white-male tech workers... lots of ideas that work in theory that fall apart once you actually meet real people.

The irony of your post getting downvoted instead of getting discussed further on a thread discussing how dissenting non-mainstream liberal views are disapproved of in SV.

Appears like ideologues regardless of their affiliation enjoy suppressing dissenting views instead of discussing them further with people that have opposing views.

Post reply on HN